User talk:Martinevans123

"All these endless, indescribable sufferings are due directly or indirectly to war. Will the people of the world wake up and see what war is, and if they do, will they allow a next war to come?"

— Fridtjof Nansen (1861–1930)

Support Volodymyr Zelenskyy and the people of Ukraine.

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy: brave, tells the truth, acts like an adult, admired by his people, in short, a real leader

Russian war criminal
13,134 civilians killed, 31,867 wounded (confirmed minimum, thought higher)

War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine
War crimes in the Gaza war

Israeli war criminal: [1]
67,877 reported killed, including 53,655 recorded killed and 14,222 missing

For reference:

• Wikipedia:Copyright violations
• Wikipedia:Plagiarism
• Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources
• Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing
• Wikipedia:FAQ/Copyright

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Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialogue, people's rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension.

Martin, As you archive so regularly (unlike some editors ...) I thought that this would
a) Brighten up your page, and
b) Add a serious tone amidst all the hilarity.
All the best to you and yours –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 11:08, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. A lovely picture. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:03, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I have made a little seasonal update – hope you don't mind! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:02, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Not at all. The snow has almost vanished.
A Christian feast commemorating the resurrection of Christ; the first Sunday following the full moon that occurs on or next after the vernal equinox, neither earlier than March 22 nor later than April 25.
I hate this BST ... why can't we stick with good old GMT? (... it follows the sun after all)
Cheers!
— Gareth Griffith-Jones – The WelshBuzzard – 10:27, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

• A brand of choc ice manufactured by the British Wall's ice cream
• the act of eating

now, I ask you, what kind of alphabetical (or significance) order is that?!!

Yours, aye John Lemon

Have always loved that record. Good compilation of photographs ... who is the geezer in the middle — at 1 min 32 secs? –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:28, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

For some reason, he always reminded me of Nixon!

Oh! Of course. I knew that really –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 20:47, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Wiki Jukebox

... my own personal permanent fixture tribute...

You turn your back for a just a second and some strange Swedish person sneaks in and steals your records!!

RIP Simon Fox

RIP Simon Andrew David Fox (12 July 1949 – 12 September 2024) drummer with progressive rock group Be-Bop Deluxe: [2] Martinevans123 (talk) 20:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Old Lea Hall Farmhouse

The only image we, and Geograph, hold for Old Lea Hall Farmhouse hardly seems to do justice to its splendid brickwork (see the images in the HE listing which it won't let me link to). I don't know whether any editors might be wandering in the vicinity with a camera in hand, but if they were... KJP1 (talk) 10:29, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, if they were.... they'd better watch out for 12-bore shotguns! But you never know... Martinevans123 (talk) 10:33, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Possibly… The land appears to have been sold for housing in 2022 so it might be sitting in the middle of a modern housing estate a la Church Farmhouse, Caldicot, depending on how quickly the developers got to work. But given the glacial speed of the UK’s planning process, it might still just be a muddy field. KJP1 (talk) 10:51, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

No houses yet, as far as I know. But I think it was used as a depot for the recent construction of the new A582 "Edith Rigby Way" (see Cottam Parkway railway station). The problem with the Old Lea Hall is that the less attractive back faces north onto the main road (see Google Streetview), while the more attractive front is on the private southside, as shown in the Letting brochure. The north side is also obscured by trees. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

That’s a pity. The brick frontage looks very nice, the cement-rendered one rather less so. Don’t you have a suitably long lens? KJP1 (talk) 11:14, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately it was confiscated. But what's the copyright status of the recent photos at HE? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:17, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

That’s an interesting question. I’d long thought the text of HE and Cadw listings was copyright, but it turns out that I was likely wrong on that and that it is all “public domain”. I could try uploading one to Commons and see what transpires…? KJP1 (talk) 11:23, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I am loath to offer any advice on copyright... lol. But I suspect Ashley might know? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:46, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

If there are copyrighted images that would improve the article, it would be better not to try to put them at Commons, where it would be very likely that they would get deleted. On the other hand, they could be uploaded locally (ie, at the English Wikipedia), according to WP:NFCC. Just follow what it says at NFCC meticulously, and it should be OK. (I wrote WP:AAFFD, so if you need any specific advice from me, just ask.) --Tryptofish (talk) 23:06, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Alternatively, you could just "do a Kate" and photoshop in a few extra manorial windows. No one will ever notice! Shelby Reet 123 (talk) 09:08, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Just so long as there isn't too much cropping. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:15, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Jacob and family thank you for your very timely Tudor witticism! "Chortle, chortle, & Etc." [3] Martinevans123 (talk) 22:06, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

[4]. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Don't look at me, Handsome Brian... I'm only plucking pheasants! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:28, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

December music

story · music · places

Today's story comes from a DYK about a concert that fascinated me, and you can listen! For my taste, the hook has too little music – I miss the unusual scoring and the specific dedication – but it comes instead with a name good for viewcount. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Today, listen to Sequenza XIV. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:40, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

What a very unusual piece of music. It makes Lol Coxhill's 1975 Fleas in Custard sound positively normal. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Surprising how an old church can bring together Zelenskyy, Macron and Trump. One question remains.... did they refurbish "old hunchy"? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I looked but can't answer that question. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

On the Main page today Jean Sibelius on his birthday. Listening to Beethoven's Fifth from the opening of Notre-Dame de Paris. We sang in choirs today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:59, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Listen today to the (new) Perplexities after Escher. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:01, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Gerda. That reminds me... I must get those stairs fixed! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:18, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Listen today to Beethoven's 3rd cello sonata, on his birthday – it was a hook in the 2020 DYK set when his 250th birthday was remembered. I picked a recording with Antônio Meneses, because he was on my sad list this year, and I was in Brazil (see stunning places), and I love his playing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks, Gerda. A great recording. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Also for the music for Christmas! I don't mind no snow ;) – I came to fix the cellist's name, with a 10-years-old DYK and new pics – look for red birds --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:48, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Today is a woman poet's centenary. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Gerda. To be fair, it does look like she may have been a bit of a röcker. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:17, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Hauptfriedhof Mainz today, see November. (If you have the time, take the YouTube walk by a young man from from Jamaica, speaking English.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, I'd say speaking Jamaican, ha! You remember, I am a big fan of Pluto. But very nice video. Amazing flowers. Thanks, Gerda. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:02, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

I meant English vs. German. I looked at four or so that I rejected for various reasons. I hesitated a bit but then added the flowers I brought to the article (gallery). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:41, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Today it's a great woman, soprano Sigrid Kehl, and I found a 1963 Christmas Oratorio detail. 10 years earlier than that cycle, Bach wrote seven cantatas for the 1724 season, based on seven songs, – my focus this year. Expect three stories for the three days they celebrated in Leipzig ;) – Enjoy the season! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:21, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

My first Christmas story is about Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ, BWV 91, 300 years today, and its song, 500 years old. Enjoy! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:24, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

If I heard Gabriel's message before, I forgot: lovely, thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:21, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Of her, Immanuel, the Christ, was born

In Bethlehem, all on a Christmas morn,

And Christian folk throughout the world will ever say,

"Most highly favoured maiden." Gloria!

Martinevans123 (talk) 15:46, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! – Similar to the first, my second Christmas story is about Christum wir sollen loben schon, BWV 121, 300 years today, and its song, 500 years old. An aria is inspired by a baby leaping in his mother's womb. Enjoy! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:24, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

My third Christmas story is different. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:00, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

GEOLINK

Apparently, "[[Chicago, Illinois]], United States" is a single territorial unit, similar to the "[[Buffalo, New York]], United States" example given in MOS:GEOLINK. Anyway, your edit is fine. – Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:57, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I saw no advantage, as Chicago, Illinois just redirects to Chicago anyway. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:59, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. I wonder why this → "[[Buffalo, New York]], United States" was given as an example. My edit was actually a revert. Regards. – Fylindfotberserk (talk) 13:10, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for brightening my day with this. Nice that our paths are crossing after so many years. Risker (talk) 17:35, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Risker! Lucky I'm still here really, haha. Great to see you around. 😄 Martinevans123 (talk) 17:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Seasons greetings

from 'a Norwegian IP'.--Oh, "Mister Evans, your reputation and humor precedes you."--I really enjoy many of your contributions to wikipeda. Thanks! Formerly 2001:2020:303:C4EB:910D:634D:B1EB:7217, now 2001:2020:303:C4EB:3DB9:821B:FA67:9074 46.15.6.9 (talk) 22:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Ah, thank you so much, Norwegian IP. I wasn't sure if you'd message me, but I was hoping you would! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:09, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I thought I would not be amazed, with whatever you linked to, this time for a change.--I really should have known better.--Never mind the rest of that tune.--In regard to the smell of birds, there are some rhymes that need to be wikified: "If it smells like fish, it's a dish; if it smells like cologne – leave-it-alone".--I heard that IgNoble research might be going on, about why that poem, (allegedly) gets recommended by 7 out of 10, Poet-laureates.--Top of the Australian solar-year, to you! 2001:2020:335:EB3A:B83F:158F:2A2A:7A8F (talk) 23:19, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Yippee! I'm a dish! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:07, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I've always said it. Just like Dishi Sunak. **swoon**. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:21, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Gregg Wallace

Looking at your last two edits on the Gregg Wallace article, these both paint Wallace in a poor light and are not reliably sourced. The Express is listed at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources as "generally unreliable" and while OK! is not listed there, I suggest that as a celeb news magazine it's not a proper source for any Wikipedia article. Additionally, as Wallace is a living individual we need to take account of Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons which states that "Contentious material about living persons ... that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—must be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion". If you can find the report about Wallace's ex-wife's views in a reliable source then my understanding of the policy is that it can be added if reliably sourced. Greenshed (talk) 22:59, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

The "last two edits" were adding the same two-word quote from his late ex-wife. My uncertainly was reflected in the question mark in my edit summary – if something is sourced to the Daily Mail is it still valid if republished by a WP:RS? So, is OK! magazine WP:RS or not? I've seen it used in many BLP articles. With your permission, I'd suggest this thread should be moved to Talk:Gregg Wallace. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

By all means feel free to move this thread to Talk:Gregg Wallace. Greenshed (talk) 19:32, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Now over copied to Talk:Gregg Wallace#"utter hell". Martinevans123 (talk) 19:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings!

File:Statues of Three Wise Men in the Philippines 06.jpg

Hello there, 'tis the season again, believe it or not, the years pass so quickly now! A big thank you for all of your contributions to Wikipedia in 2024! Wishing you a Very Merry Christmas and here's to a happy and productive 2025! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 08:35, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Blowers! And Seasons Greetings to you also! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:22, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

December 2024

You have recently made edits related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles. This is a standard message to inform you that articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles is a designated contentious topic. This message does not imply that there are any issues with your editing. For more information about the contentious topics system, please see Wikipedia:Contentious topics.

You haven't received this notice since 2021, so it is time for a reminder. Cullen328 (talk) 22:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

What on earth are you on about?? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:50, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

@Cullen328: Maybe you should have used a section header other than "December 2024"? Reading the message, it looks to me like the template for CTOP "awareness", which is simply a standard notification to editors who work in certain designated topic areas, but not a warning about supposed bad behavior. I can readily understand why Martin would be left wondering what is going on here, so I hope that I have cleared that up. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Never mind all that. It basically means Martin, that you have been a very naughty boy, and even worse, you are Welsh. The ARBS could 'have you' at a moment's notice. Which equates to permanently being required to wear a het gymreig, even in the most barbarous of occasions: such as here:

"Who knew Italian bra straps were so elastic?"

Tryptofish, Martin is well aware that I am reminding him of BLP policy as a result of his recent contributions to Sophia Loren and its talk page. As for the notion that this has anything to do with the editor being Welsh, that is ludicrous. Cullen328 (talk) 01:20, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

And a Very Merry Christmas to you too. Sophia sends her best. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:32, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Hands off my man tits, dude. (And watch out for those specially-sharpened leeks). Martinevans123 (talk) 09:04, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

So, are we all done here now? Anyone need any more Italian pearls clutching? (in a perfectly respectful way) Whatever you do, don't tell the Arbs. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:41, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

->[5] --Askedonty (talk) 19:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Personally, I'd never ask a donkey, but many thanks for that! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:04, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh, so that's what this is about. Sorry, Cullen, I didn't know about that. Martin, you're a boob. This all seems like a tempest in some kind of cup. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:20, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Well thanks for nuffink, Mr Saul Goodman. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:38, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

I looked online for a suitable reply, and found this. Be forewarned. [6] --Tryptofish (talk) 20:43, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Ah, thank heavens. For a moment I thought you said a subtle reply. I honestly think Sophia really doesn't suit red, does she. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:49, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

X mass

		Best to you
		It's always fun swapping music vids and chatting; you might know but you have greatly broadened my horizons over the years. Ceoil (talk) 03:08, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Cheers, Ceoil. It's very nice of you to say that. Wishing you all the best. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:56, 21 December 2024 (UTC) p.s. and talking of horizons, here's the wonderful Sidney (1944)

Wow, its beautiful and hopefully nostalgic. Reminds me of the original Coronation Street intro,[7], always loved that drum pattern and how the wind instruments wind in with the lazy beat. Ceoil (talk) 00:08, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, quite similar isn't it! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:24, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Do you know this. My favourite McTell track. (Mike Piggott on fiddle) Martinevans123 (talk) 20:13, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

	A very happy Christmas and New Year to you!
	Have a great Christmas, and may 2025 bring you joy, happiness – and no trolls or vandals! Cheers SchroCat (talk) 08:26, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks SchroCat. Wishing you joy and happiness also! Martinevans123 (talk) 08:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Nadolig Llawen Martinevans123

Hello Martinevans123: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 12:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

Thank you, Iggy. O! what's occurrin'?? It's Christmas. Tidy! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:34, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Same to you

Happy Christmas

Happy Christmas, Martin. All the best for 2025.Kieronoldham (talk) 20:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

All the best, Martin. Doesn't time fly when you're enjoying yourself! :) Kieronoldham (talk) 20:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Cheers, Kieron. Hope all well with you over there. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:53, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

St Joseph's Hospital, Newport

Who knew that had a link?! Now I just need an RS recording my brother's birth within it. That, and his very Welsh wife, are the basis of his claims to hundreds of years of Welsh ancestry. All a bit Bradney-bogus, in my opinion. KJP1 (talk) 18:20, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

p.s. Happy Christmas!

I have less happy memories, having known St Anne's Hospice, which is located on the same site. But a wonderful place with very caring staff. As you may remember I was born at the Lydia Beynon Maternity Hospital, which is now the very understated Terry Mathews Towers! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

p.s. "Feliz Navidad"!

Season's greetings

@Martinevans123 Wishing you Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Apologies for the early greeting and looking forward to potential collaborations in 2025. MSincccc (talk) 18:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much. Yes, all of mine have been a bit early too. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:42, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi

How are you? @Martinevans123 i would ask you if you can help me to create page abou this topic Qatarijournalist (talk) 11:17, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

here Qatarijournalist (talk) 11:17, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Qatarijournalist, how are you? Are you intending to create a Wikipedia article about yourself? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

This is a blocked LTA. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 16:14, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me. A little too enthusiastic start to editing it seems. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:35, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Superfluous commas

I know many other people don’t think this sort of thing is important, but it really is. Thank you. Springnuts (talk) 14:18, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Unless, you're from, the, United States, of America, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:30, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

I resent that commant. – Sca (talk) 16:23, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Oh dear. Time to get down with Weird Al, I think... Martinevans123 (talk) 16:28, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Must we drag him into this erudite debate? – Sca (talk) 16:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

January music

story · music · places

Happy new year 2025, opened with trumpet fanfares that first sounded OTD in 1725 (as the Main page has). – I saw a lovely opera by Rimsky-Korsakov, – see here. – Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:43, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you, Gerda. Caught this amazing ensemble on the radio this morning. They are 40 years old this year! Now this is definitely on my 2025 shopping list. lol. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:56, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Did you see that I took their lead image ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:34, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

I had not. Well done, a great image! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:24, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! – Liebster Immanuel, Herzog der Frommen, BWV 123, my story today 300 years after the first performance, is up for GAN. Dada Masilo will be my story tomorrow. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:27, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

My story today is about a composer who influenced music history also by writing. Did you watch Masilo talk and dance? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, thanks. Eat your heart out Sergei. Some Dudu and Spear for you (... later covered by the wonderful Robert Wyatt!) Martinevans123 (talk) 18:12, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Today a violinist from Turkey, Ayla Erduran, whom you can watch playing Schubert chamber music --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:03, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

... and today, pictured on the Main page, Tosca, in memory of her first appearance on stage OTD in 1900, and of principal author Brian Boulton. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:58, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Today, between many who just died, Tobias Kratzer on his 45th birthday who was good for an unusual DYK mentioning a Verdi opera in 2018, - you can see his work in the trailer of another one that I saw, and my talk page has a third (but by a different director). 2025 pics, finally. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:45, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

You can't go wrong with Verdi, can you. Especially the lush Rigoletto. Here's a wonderful soul/R&B track from 1991 with utterly superb production, that my local supermarket sound system kindly reminded me of this evening. That guitar solo is quite wonderful (worthy of a mid-career Steely Dan album, I think). The brass section is just superb, what do you think DBAK? [8] Martinevans123 (talk) 21:09, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, absolutely terrific. Mega-tight whilst feeling relaxed and laid-back – true precision! Beautiful playing! DBaK (talk) 09:12, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

A wonderful album, produced by Tommy LiPuma (whose productions "received 33 Grammy nominations and sold over 75 million albums"). A great line-up of musicians. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:30, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! - Today I have a composer (trumpeter, conductor) on the main page who worked closely with another who became GA yesterday, - small world! To celebrate: mostly flowers pics from vacation ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:21, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks, Gerda. So nice (... another trumpeter... on ECM's 2009 Dark Eyes). Martinevans123 (talk) 20:28, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Today Claire van Kampen - more sackbut - and a hidden cat ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:03, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks, Gerda. I had not heard about Claire van Kampen. That is a real tragedy for Mark Rylance. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:39, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, and her daughter who took his name. - Today, a Bach cantata with a funny number turned 300, and I managed a GAN ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:32, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

I have more vacation pics to offer, and today's story of Werner Bardenhewer. I took the pic, and it was my DYK on his 90th birthday, in both English and German. He spent the day in Africa, and after his return said - chatting after a mass of thanks he celebrated at Mariä Heimsuchung - that we'd have to talk about these articles. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:23, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Edit warring

Your recent editing history at Bonnie and Clyde shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war; read about how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. TigerShark (talk) 15:49, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

The repeated edits of the IP concerned were vandalism, in direct contravention of the stated advice given in the article? Are we just meant to turn a blind eye? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:52, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Hi Martin. As an uninvolved editor it is not immediately clear to me why the edits should be considered vandalism. My limited understanding is that the issue is whether the song is a musical reference in popular culture, but that the title references the article subject but the lyrics don't. I think a better way is to discuss the issue, perhaps bringing in other editors, rather than risking an edit war escalating. TigerShark (talk) 16:06, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

I'll just give up patiently warning and reporting what I see as vandalism, so I can avoid boilerplate warnings like this one. If you think that hidden note advice is wrong, you might want to raise it at Talk:Bonnie and Clyde. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:10, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Martin Evans, the Wikipedia page is for Bonnie and Clyde. I am listing a song titled '97 Bonnie and Clyde' under a paragraph on the Bonnie and Clyde Wikipedia page that is titled 'In Pop Culture', specifically music. If that is considered vandalism, for stating a fact, because it literally references the two human beings, not just in the song title, but mentioned by voice in the song, you sir are completely out of touch with reality. 88.156.215.119 (talk) 15:54, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Here's the hidden note, giving editing advice, in the "Music" section (emphasis added):

"DO NOT ADD TO THIS SECTION unless the reference is solely and specifically about them, such as a song entitled "Bonnie and Clyde" that is ABOUT THIS COUPLE. Don't add passing references to the pair in songs, items that are "based on", "like", or "mentions in a line of an otherwise unrelated song" aren't appropriate for this page. Any additions not meeting this guideline will be removed. DO NOT ADD THE EMINEM SONG "97 BONNIE AND CLYDE", IT IS NOT ABOUT THIS PAIR, AND WILL BE REMOVED. THE JAY-Z SONG "'03 BONNIE AND CLYDE" is NOT ABOUT THIS PAIR, DO NOT ADD IT, IT WILL BE REMOVED. THE 2PAC SONG "ME AND MY GIRLFRIEND" IS NOT ABOUT THIS PAIR, DO NOT ADD IT, IT WILL BE REMOVED. THE LONELY ISLAND SONG "RONNIE AND CLYDE" IS NOT ABOUT THEM; IT IS A PARODY; DON'T ADD IT. DEAN'S 2016 KOREAN SONG IS ABOUT A MODERN COUPLE, NOT BARROW AND PARKER. DO NOT POST IT.THE TAYLOR SWIFT SONG "GETWAWAY CAR" HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BARROW AND PARKER AND CANNOT BE ADDED. Thank you."

I do not know if that is meant to reflect "reality". I did not write that advice. I was just following it. And thanks so much for your earlier delightful comment to me here.

Martinevans123 (talk) 16:02, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

A discussion on the article talk page, may be the best way forward. What we need to avoid is two editors just reverting back and forth. TigerShark (talk) 16:08, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Perhaps somebody else might like a go, and I'll just take it off my watchlist. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:12, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Honestly the fact that this has been brought up to the attention of a supposed Wikipedia admin is pretty wild. We are literally talking about the fact that you are considering it vandalism that I'm adding 97 Bonnie and Clyde under the pop culture paragraph for music, on a page about Bonnie and Clyde. I feel like you're just gatekeeping or trying to use your experience on Wikipedia to shut my mouth. I don't know how to do article talks or discussion groups, but you Martin as a long time Wikipedia user should know better instead of trying to shut me out. This is counterproductive and frankly it makes the site seem unwelcoming. Just because I'm new to editing and don't have an account doesn't mean I don't have a right to correct something. 88.156.215.119 (talk) 16:15, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

The appropriate venue for discussion of this topic is Talk:Bonnie and Clyde. The status of your account is irrelevant. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:18, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

• The better solution would be to semi-protect the article, as the majority of such additions comes from IP addresses. Risker (talk) 16:57, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

I expect IP 88 will be pleased that you've protected the article with the disputed addition still in place. Seems my last revert was 3 hrs 12 mins too premature. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:06, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

I've removed the disputed addition. Martin, remember that there are A LOT of errors in A LOT of articles; having one inappropriate addition in an "in popular culture" section for a few hours is not really a crisis. Floquenbeam (talk) 17:34, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks. I'm sure it's not a crisis. Even if it's for a few days, or weeks. There are other regular editors there who seem to agree that song doesn't belong there. There a A LOT of IP editors who add stuff they shouldn't to A LOT of articles. That particular slow edit war has been going on for some time, with IP edits and summaries like this one. Maybe I'll just let other editors warn and report. It's a lot less hassle. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:01, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

If I may interpolate, having a long term interest in this article – reference to the Wiki guideline for "trivial mentions" might be of value – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Trivial_mentions — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sensei48 (talk • contribs) 21:54, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks for your interest and supporting observation. But it seems efforts to combat vandalism are fair game for serial unchecked insults from anonymous IP editors and boiler-plate warnings for "edit warring". So good luck in engaging at the Talk page. I do not feel encouraged to take any further part in that debate. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:14, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Peter Yarrow

RIP Mr Yarrow. One of the more bizarre things that Jimmy Carter (also RIP) did was to give a Presidential pardon to Yarrow before leaving office in 1981. Nowadays this might set off a huge controversy. Can you imagine what Elon Musk would have said on X if Keir Starmer had done this? We would never have heard the last of it, surely. ♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 11:45, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, if only Rolf had still been around to be pardoned for his crimes (?!) But as we now know, Starmer is just a Tyrant-o-Saurus Rex, probably still stuck in the 70s. Who needs fact-checkers when you've got cosy community notes from Elon! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:54, 8 January 2025 (UTC) p.s. I wonder how many folks in the USA will now wish they were Leaving on a Jet Plane...

Me! Me! (I'll even ride in the baggage compartment!) --Tryptofish (talk) 23:14, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Remember to take a packed lunch. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:12, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Of course, there was a time when Greenland looked like a decent residential alternative for Yanks in an emergency. Perhaps the almost equally sub-zero Faroe Islands would suffice. Maybe the orange headed one has his eyes on all of the Kingdom of Denmark – even Lurpak could become a big seller in Walmart. "All my bags are packed, I'm ready to go" – Derek R Bullamore (talk) 23:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

"Puff, the Orange Dragon, lived by the sea..." Martinevans123 (talk) 10:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Suggestion for Colin Firth quote

The paragraph section on the “popular culture” section on the Pan Am Flight 103 page, “Colin Firth told the New York Times that in the decades following the initial, widespread shock, "fewer and fewer people cared, or even knew about, the disaster".”, feels like it properly resides on the Sky Atlantic drama ”Lockerbie: A Search for Truth” page, in the production section, which mentions Firth’s casting. 92.40.218.225 (talk) 10:10, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Perhaps it does. But a better place to ask would probably be at Talk:Pan Am Flight 103. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:50, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

References

Quotation corner...

• "It is better to be on the train pissing out the window than running along the platform trying to piss in." – Harry Enfield.
• "There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is being talked about at Wikipedia's WP:AN/I." – Oscar Wilde (attrib.)
• "Well at least I won't have that idiot organising my funeral now." – Elizabeth II.
• "Clowns have been involved in funerals for a long time, and some families choose to include them in their services for a variety of reasons:" – Google AI Overview.
• "I call again for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza. The return of the sausages..." - Keir Starmer

Martinevans123 (talk) 12:46, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Invitation to discussion

@Martinevans123 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Princess Charlotte of Wales (born 2015). Regards. MSincccc (talk) 04:10, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, have commented. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:19, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

@Martinevans123 You are invited to join the discussion on the "Personal interests" section at Talk: William, Prince of Wales. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 09:53, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, have commented. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:39, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

New message to Martinevans123

I guess my question would've been whether Engels's father was sufficiently notable by enwiki standards—we shouldn't use an ILL if not. Remsense ‥ 论 21:17, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Maybe best to explain/ discuss at Talk:Friedrich Engels. Is that the agreed policy on use of ILL? Seems quite a high bar. I guess there are many de.wiki articles that will never be en.wiki articles, but which a reader might still find useful. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:21, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

p.s. I don't see that advice at Template:Interlanguage link. Is it perhaps stated elsewhere? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:46, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

@Remsense, any further thoughts? With your kind permission, I could copy this to Talk:Friedrich Engels. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:31, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Of course. If you disagree, you're free to put it back as well. Remsense ‥ 论 16:37, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Current special offers:*

• Put it back.
• Open a discussion at Talk:Friedrich Engels.
• Put it back and open a discussion as Talk:Friedrich Engels.

*(Hurry while stocks last)

Martinevans123 (talk) 16:44, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Late to this: if there is an article in a different language, we should use {{ill}}, period. Regardless of what we think about notability in any specific case. Some user knowing some language may profit from it, and perhaps even translate ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:46, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

I've already chosen option 1. Remsense has not reappeared. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:49, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

I am sorry that you were waiting on me! Remsense ‥ 论 19:54, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

No worries. I'm happy to take Gerda's advice on this. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:56, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you ;) - You have no idea how close I was to "canvass" support for today's story, but - relief - appeared now, a few hours before the deadline. Delicious. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:40, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for that, a change for you. Ah yes, canvas.... here's Robert Glasper: [9] Martinevans123 (talk) 21:54, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Like that canvas! - I hope you had time for the pumpkin soup yt ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:03, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

January 2025

Hello. Regarding the recent revert you made to Dharshini David: you may already know about them, but you might find Wikipedia:Template index/User talk namespace useful. After a revert, these can be placed on the user's talk page to let them know you considered their edit inappropriate, and also direct new users towards the sandbox. They can also be used to give a stern warning to a vandal when they've been previously warned. Thank you. jolielover♥talk 14:55, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Be my guest. I have opened a thread at Talk:Dharshini David. Perhaps you would restore the infobox? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:58, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

The infobox and lead mage have now been restored, in case you are not watching that article. The anon IP concerned has made no further representations at the article talk page, or at their own Talk page, in case you are not watching that either. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:18, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia and thank you for your contribution(s). However, as a general rule, while user talk pages permit a small degree of generalisation, other talk pages such as Talk:Ferdinand Magellan are strictly for discussing improvements to their associated main pages, and many of them have special instructions on the top. They are not a general discussion forum about the article's topic or any other topic. If you have questions or ideas and are not sure where to post them, consider asking at the Teahouse. Thanks. Donald Albury 16:14, 26 January 2025 (UTC) - Strike mistaken warning. - Donald Albury 16:50, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Hi Donald. What on earth are you on about? Thanks Martinevans123 (talk) 16:17, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Oh dear, I was responding to Talk:Ferdinand Magellan#How did he discoverer that the earth was round, which was definitely not you. I don't know how that ended up on your talk page. My apologies. Donald Albury 16:48, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

No worries. @Donald Albury, you might want to delete the WP:FORUM material at that Talk page. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:54, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Gabriel Yacoub

RIP Gabriel Yacoub (1952-2025) leader of Malicorne: Le mariage anglais Martinevans123 (talk) 17:41, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Let's get him to the Main page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:07, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Haha, ambitious. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:08, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, you do the work, and I nominate ;) - Seriously, I'm tired today (interesting hike!), should get tomorrow's cantata BWV 111 to a GA nom (which will happen tomorrow if it all). - I looked at the guitarist. Strange bio, with the parents at the very end. Miserable ref formatting. Personal web seems to be used as ref. Some things have no ref at all. Back to #1: I can seriously look at him on Monday, but that is still not too late. Birthday of Mozart and our conductor (who doesn't like Mozart much, - I think I mentioned that. But the Requiem.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:22, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Well maybe, haha. We'll see. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:25, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Note to self for Monday: look at French, for references and list of albums (but use only sourced albums), look at albums with an article in English to better copy to his than send to group's longish article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:35, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Monday

Now we have all refs looking decent. I found something nice in English, but probably a tad too personal to be more than en external link: [10]. Will see what I can sift from the others, - sorry that my French is just enough to read a menu. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:15, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks so much for all the graft, Gerda. Yes, I think that would make a very good External link. I can almost manage a wine list (occasionally). Martinevans123 (talk) 22:22, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Can you manage to make the biography a bit more coherent, based on the English sources, perhaps? Will look again after sleep, - it's still not hopeless, two more days ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:46, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

more sources, possibly:

• https://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7015
• http://www.faculty.umb.edu/brian_thompson/yacoub.htm

watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VyXeXkKBUY

for fun: https://pasdemerde.com/tag/gabriel-yacoub/

Many thanks, Gerda. Will try and have a look later. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:21, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Tuesday

I'll do now what I can and then nominate. I'll try to keep every edits short and simple, to avoid edit conflicts. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:10, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks, Gerda. Not much time today, so by all means do all you can. Probably enough to nominate by now anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:23, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. I wish I had some clear source saying when Gabriel and Marie married. Some refs always call her Yacoub, and others never. (I have married friends Gabriel and Marie, DYK?) I don't know why we have ref #15 for their first album, when that is - as far as I can see - the same AFP as Le Figaro?? (and we have several refs for that album) - Just some questions. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:26, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, I really don't know. I can't find any record of their marriage! Very difficult as it was probably in France. Perhaps it was a druidical one! (I really have no idea on Yacoub's religion...) Yes, those two sources are really the same, I think. Not sure which one is better. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:38, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

I'll have a look at this source again, which I can open with my local library card, but which I guess you cannot. Could add it to External links? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:43, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Apparently it just leads to The Encyclopedia of Popular Music (4th ed.) by Colin Larkin, and I'd need a further subscription to read that! I think the Larkin article is just about the band anyway, so unlikely to have any marriage details. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:49, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

We can just leave it as is, which is "Marie Sauvet (également connue sous le nom de Marie Yacoub)" and calls him her "partenaire" whatever that may mean. They certainly look like understanding each other in that 2017 video. - Of the 2 sources, Le Figaro has the better name, but the other the nicer pic ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:05, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Oh, which video was that? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:22, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Wednesday

We did it!! - Video: one of the four under Monday, look for youtube. (All in French, but you see a lot in the faces, and even hear some in the voices, without knowing the language. A woman interviewer asking questions from the off, and you see the two thinking about answers before they actually give them. Found it very interesting.) - What I came to say was: let's write her article, birthday 5 Feb ;) - go ahead, I first have a Japanese conductor who died, and don't do more than one a day, even when no vacation, - there has to be discipline ;) - - new pics, from the lava desert, with exquisite dessert! -Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:29, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks, Gerda. Relatively painless, this time. Don't worry, I'm happy to do no days, even when on vacation (but my watchlist usually gets in the way... ) Martinevans123 (talk) 09:35, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

Thursday

Of course I do "no days", but really rarely two. Marie's turn was today, and her pob and dob are about the only things different from his so far, - help wanted ;) - I found a Marie Yacoub in two articles - her husband and son - who seems to be a different one, because she is described as Egyptian. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:01, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Do you have any idea who is pictured on the lead image of Malicorne? 5 people are named, but I see only three. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:03, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Keith Chegwin

@Martinevans123: Why do you do, go for the lower quality choice on crap sources? Is there a reason for it? scope_creep^Talk 12:19, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

I have opened a thread for discussion at Talk:Keith Chegwin. I have seen Twitter and "X" used as a valid source on very many article, so it's not just me choosing "the lower quality choice on crap sources". Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:22, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

Do you actually want to discuss the issue, or just post accusatory questions here? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:12, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

Katheryn Parr

In answer to your question attached to your edit of the Jane Grey page, the reason Parr's forename is spelled with a K is likely related to the fact that Parr herself spelled her own first name Kateryn. She did so consistently throughout her life. But clearly Parr did not know her own name, so history has corrected her error. DesertSkies120 (talk) 02:45, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Ah I see. Catherine Parr was illiterate, so we ought to misspell along with her, 480 years later? I found those spellings particularly confusing at Lady Jane Grey since:

1. There was a mixture Katherine and Catherine;
2. There's also mention of her younger sister Lady Katherine;
3. There is no mention of "Katherine" at Catherine Parr.

It might be an idea to copy this to the Talk page over there? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:28, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

Please cite your source that Parr was "illiterate." Or try reading the Wiki article on Parr, especially the section relative to her education. With all due respect, your statement that Kateryn Parr was "illiterate" is a perfect example of why non-specialists with only limited and often erroneous knowledge on a subject should not be allowed to edit articles on Wikipedia.

Parr was fully literate in English. How do I know this? Because we have surviving letters that she wrote in her own hand! She wrote and published three books! She was the leader of a coterie of educated women that translated religious works from Latin and Greek into English (that group included Jane Grey, Katherine Willoughby Brandon, and numerous others).

The issue of the spelling of Parr's forename was fought on Wikipedia long ago. I suspect that debate is now archived. The amateurs prevailed in that instance.

This is why I do not myself edit Wikipedia articles: Too many editors think they have the knowledge required to consider themselves an authority on a given topic, when in fact they do not. What is my own basis for authority? A PhD in Tudor History, a long list of peer-reviewed publications by academic publishers, recognition by the Society of Antiquaries as an expert on Tudor History and Jane Grey, etc.

And just for fun, I will tell you that my middle name is spelled Stephan but is pronounced Steven. I guess that makes me illiterate. And I guess amateur Wiki editors are within their rights to respell my name as they see fit, since I cannot possibly know how to spell it correctly. I have a friend whose first name is Johnathan. Should he be required to change the spelling of his name simply because Jonathan is the more common spelling? Do individuals no longer have the right of individual self-determination?

Spelling any person's name differently from how that person spells/spelled their own name themselves is incredibly disrespectful. DesertSkies120 (talk) 01:54, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

It was a question, not a statement. And a rhetorical one at that. Do you want to copy all this over or shall I? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:55, 26 January 2025 (UTC) p.s. many congratulations on your PhD, Steve. A shame you no longer edit Wikipedia. I bet you don't even watch Wikipedia articles like Katy Parr, any more, in case you get enraged by the meddling of amateur busybodies like me.

(p.p.s. could you possibly get me a signed photo of Lucy Worsley?) Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:58, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

I am not going to copy anything, Evie. And I cannot help you re: Lucy Worsley. DesertSkies120 (talk) 01:14, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Cheers Dezzie, bro. Chill thy Tudor beans. I'll have you know I've got a disposable coffee cup used by Professor Alice Roberts! Martinevans123 (talk) 08:10, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Um, is this a picture of her coronation? (That's what they teach us in US schools.) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:39, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Almost.... here's Katy Parr with her lil' sister Parr for the course! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:06, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Course fish? How dare you! I'm a very fine fish! In fact, I'm first course! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:13, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Wasn't it Anne of Cloves who invented that classic English Entrée? Apparently she was known as the "dishy fruits of Flanders Mare". Martinevans123 (talk) 21:20, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Ah, yes. Here's to fine dining! [11]. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:38, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, I just about remember Wimpy coming to the UK! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:44, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

OpenAI fritters, anyone?? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:33, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Just a stranger passing through in the midst of a Wikipedia rabbit hole and I thoroughly enjoyed this illiterate Katy/Catherine/Kate Parr debate! With a PhD focused on early medieval British history, I too am an uninformed amateur and shouldn't even be allowed to read Wiki's Tudor articles, especially those of Henry VIII or his 3 wives... Shana3980 (talk) 05:41, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

Hi Shana3980. I guess stranger things have happened. I think experts with PhDs are generally welcomed (as long as they are unbiased, and not unbalanced). Forsooth, perchance all we are full sore agriev'd that Wykepeedia be not rul'd and govern'd by a more Tudorish expert. Tarry ye not, mystical seek'r of the ancyent coney! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:31, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

"Don't be stupid, be a smarty...."

"Let's Make America's Grounds Again!"

Ahahaha.... and the final dance routine is very slick. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:20, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

But let's not forget Pete. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:20, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

"It's literally a demolition site, almost everything is demolished and people are dying there.... You're talking about probably a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing". He added that the move "could be temporary" or "could be long-term": [12]. Wow, six days in and no-one's been fired yet?? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:01, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Ah yes, good old state craft. Of course, he could just wait until the plane's in the air... and then announce 500% airport tax! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:03, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

You know, the planes actually were in the air when this happened. Facepalm --Tryptofish (talk) 23:44, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, I guess they could go here, instead. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:52, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Sorry, apparently there's outline planning for a new 9-hole course. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:07, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Wow. So "Covid-19 was targeted to attack Caucasians and black people. The people who are most immune were Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese." I wish someone had told our Chris Whitty this, it would have saved mega-bucks, or MAGA-bucks anyway. Good luck if you get sick in the US. But those baby chicken and mice cocktails sound pretty tasty! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:33, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

President Trump was asked how he had concluded "diversity had something to do with the crash" and he replied: "I have common sense". Incredible, just incredible. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:23, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

I heard him say that, live, and I'm still shaken by it. Better get used to it, because this stuff is going to happen every day. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:38, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

"Some of the numbers are horrible what he's found. A hundred, think of it, a hundred million dollars on condoms to Hamas..." Wow. And it's only Tuesday! Martinevans123 (talk) 08:01, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

"They instead can occupy all of a beautiful area with homes and safety and they can live out their lives in peace and harmony instead of having to go back and do it again. The US will take over the Gaza Strip and we will do a job with it too. ... We'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site, level the site and get rid of the destroyed buildings, level it out. Create an economic development that will supply unlimited numbers of jobs and housing for the people of the area. Do a real job, do something different." Quite incredible. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:33, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

p.s. oh, and who's your best pal, there, Donald, that you've had "fantastic talks" with? "The International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant in November 2024 for Netanyahu along with former Defense Minister Yoav Gallant and Hamas militant Mohammed Deif, whom Israel presumes dead after an airstrike, for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity as part of the ICC investigation in Palestine."

Clickable

We need an interactive clickable image of EEng's user page. Help Desk? Randy Kryn (talk) 13:06, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Haha yes, that might slow down a few mobile users!! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:16, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Gabriel Yacoub

On 28 January 2025, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Gabriel Yacoub, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 22:50, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks, Stephen. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:31, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

story · music · places

On the main page today, 300 years after its first performance, Bach's cantata BWV 125, - a lovely very intimate piece, with peace and joy in the title. Enjoy listening with score - I discovered that only now! - Today is also the birthday of James Joyce, who has an article by many authors. - Yacoub was still there until this evening. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:43, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

"History, Stephen said, is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake." - Ulysses. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:10, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Great quote! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:24, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

My story torday is about an actor who played in almost every German TV series and in internal cinema. ITNN nom last day, what's new? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:53, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes, sounds about right. Mostly because you are so busy! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:13, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Too many who die, and this one's article was in particularly lousy shape, and my mom loved Der Bastian. A Turkish composer to follow (begun yesterday), today someone I forgot what he did, and tomorrow a woman. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:23, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes, too many. And often far too soon. Here's Oor Bullie, with some obscure English musicians, back in 1976. DBaK will have to wait until 4:00 for that sparkling brass, but it's so worth it. Oldie but very groovy goodie!! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:35, 5 February 2025 (UTC) p.s. some breath-taking Vivaldi from Concerto Köln

Rock orchestral arrangements... not always great. But here's "Street in the City" from Pete Townshend and Ronnie Lane's 1977 Rough Mix, a great album. Hard to find a more wonderful orchestration. Edwin Astley (Townshend's father-in-law) so dynamic. As good as Robert Kirby on Five Leaves Left: [13] Martinevans123 (talk) 22:53, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

When you say Rock orchestral arrangements, which way round do you mean it? (1) orchestral arrangements folded into rock pieces, as part of them, or (2) new arrangements, for orchestra, of pieces which were previously just rock music? Do you see the difference I'm making? I have limited tolerance for (1) but basically none for (2), not even really for Peter Gabriel whom I love insanely much. DBaK (talk) 09:33, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes, it's really just (1). The total exception I make for (2) is the genius that is Jules. I'm sure I've recommended this to you already... but the brass is just "crackin'" (as they say in Barry, Wales) Martinevans123 (talk) 09:48, 8 February 2025 (UTC) (and yes, that's not even "rock", is it)

That's exceptionally good, thanks! Unusual trombone mute – I thought I'd seen most types of brass mute but evidently not ... DBaK (talk) 14:46, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

It's just wonderful. A boom-boom-boom and a bang-bang-bang! (trumpet solo: Ruud Breuls) Martinevans123 (talk) 21:36, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes the brass is lovely on this track! Thank you. DBaK (talk) 09:37, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

You can't get very far with Billy Preston, without finding some seriously soulful brass and strings.... (and not a million miles away from that Stones track, haha) Martinevans123 (talk) 10:05, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

today: a German-born Spanish art collector, - the video in her honour is remarkable, as what she gave the world. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:45, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

I find today's birthday child particularly inspiring, by enthusiasm and determination. That was - believe it or not - a pictured DYK in 2021, without the last line though. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:07, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

Paul Plishka, a bass who sang 88 roles of all kinds at the Met was interviewed before his (first) retirement. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:50, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

An incredible career. Thanks for the links. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:20, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

needs support as usual ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:22, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

and got it, including yours, - thank you! - Today's story is about Edith Mathis, who portrayed young women by Mozart. The video of a 1993 interview has videos of her performances. - I saw my brother on stage, - see places. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:01, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Look at places also for Valentine's food and flowers ;) - with a story, and more music there --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:05, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Youngster ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:54, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

I'd like to do more things with you, such as Yacoub. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:24, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Sorry Gerda, I'm taking a break. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:25, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Please remember that I'd like to do more things with you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:35, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

I point at a composer today, as the main page does. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:37, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks as ever for the links, Gerda. What a fascinating musician. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:59, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

yes - today's is about an opera singer on her 35th birthday, - don't miss the short video which shows her in movement, - they had a Japanese movement coach for the production that impressed me in 2022. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:00, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

spring flowers and a songbird --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:59, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

RIP Mike Ratledge

RIP Mike Ratledge (6 May 1943 – 5 February 2025): "Why Are We Sleeping" from The Soft Machine (1968) Martinevans123 (talk) 13:08, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

John Sparkes

Interested to see you editing John Sparkes. I must email you about him! DBaK (talk) 09:28, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

The sort of person who would kill himself just to win a bet. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:00, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Classic stuff, thank you! DBaK (talk) 14:35, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

"He does come from a broken home,but ..." DBaK (talk) 14:40, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world...

that IP walks into Church Farmhouse, Kemeys Commander?!?! KJP1 (talk) 23:02, 9 February 2025 (UTC)

I'm really not keeping score. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:36, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Play it again, Sam, anyway. And I could use a shot of gin. Or, for that matter, a joint. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:54, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia efforts

		The Third Opinion Award
		You're right. I realize you have significantly more experience on Wikipedia and I imagine you make edits in good faith. My point was just that the legacy of Bonnie and Clyde is still relevant today to the point they are referenced in popular hit songs. I'll keep the Talk open for other users to jump in and offer a solution. If I've taken a brash approach previously, my sincere apologies. — Summerfell1978 (talk) 18:01, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Apologies sincerely accepted. Thoughtful messages like this are a rarity at Wikipedia and need to be strongly appreciated. I'd wholly agree that the legacy of Bonnie and Clyde is still relevant today. But we seem to have a different view of what "referenced" means. I wouldn't see, for example, that "Bohemian Rhapsody" deserves any mention at Bohemia. I'm happy to wait for other editors to give their view at Talk:Bonnie and Clyde#In popular culture. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:21, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Richard III of England

Hey. Your reply looked like a vote to me, particularly the "as per" bit. Sorry about that! Snowstormfigorion (talk) 22:29, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

No worries. I can see why it looked that way. In this case I'm Type 3 at the four basic Jungian RM types... Martinevans123 (talk) 22:35, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Discussion

@Martinevans123 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk: Catherine, Princess of Wales. Regards. Velworth (talk) 16:45, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

@Martinevans123 You are invited to join this discussion, in which you might be involved, at Talk: Rishi Sunak. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 07:48, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Oh yes, didn't he used to live somewhere in Downing Street? Noted for his wet lectern. Just one of those things. I'll try and take a look, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:59, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

I realise that this matter has been discussed previously here and here. However, a new discussion has been initiated by the concerned user at Talk:Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex. You are invited to join the latest discussion here. MSincccc (talk) 05:53, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Oh no, not more news junk.... Martinevans123 (talk) 07:55, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Meakons

Not sure if these were on your radar in the early to mid-80s, [14] but they are back together and touring. Myself and the mrs have booked tickets to see them in Glasgow, a trip the involves a small propeller 1 hour plane ride from Dublin to Scotland. And back again. Flight terrifies me. Ceoil (talk) 20:45, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Natch. Great band. I think Peel used to play them a lot. Gosh, they are still alive. Oh well, probably better than the ferry and then the 10-hour drive up to Jockland. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:00, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Still alive and Sally Timms is a class act as ever. I wonder how it would go down if I drive up there with my Cork licence plate, I hear they are still a bit sectarian. Ceoil (talk) 21:12, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't realise. It will take you long enough to get to Dublin?! [15] Martinevans123 (talk) 21:21, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks Martin, that's a song always loved but haven't listened to in years. He rightfully gets a lot of shite for his Christian period, but - "Days like this" has to be up there in anyone's top 10, especially the way the bass resolves after every vocal line.

Now I'm thinking Madame George and "from Dublin up to Sandy Row" before a ferry disastor. Ceoil (talk) 21:34, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Lol. A colosus of an album. Although I am very partial to Enlightenment. Another favourite (from 1970 here, I think). Martinevans123 (talk) 21:43, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Wow. Bulbs is new to me. 1970 is very early to be playing funk. Ceoil (talk) 21:58, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Yes, it is pretty funky. I still have the single I bought in Woolworths in 1974. The B-side is even better. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:28, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

ps a happy song to you [16]. Ceoil (talk) 00:23, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

Ah, what a lovely sunny track. Thanks so much! I'm a big fan of the low countries: [17]. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:42, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

Not sure if your into trippy late 80s early 90s Brit reggae, but [18] this is top notch. It seems sure as hell that Massive Attack were listening.[19] Ceoil (talk) 00:19, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

OOOOH!! You read my mind. Have been searching for something like that for a few weeks now. Not listened to the full 1 hour 15 yet! Am a bit partial to a bit of deep dub riddims or even the Good Doctor. chill dude Martinevans123 (talk) 09:51, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

"Hey, Mr Dreamseller, where have you been? Tell me, have you dreams I can see?" Martinevans123 (talk) 22:41, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

If you start at 1:13 here[20] that is some weird and trippy electro, also heavy on the bass. For me its all about the bass. Ceoil (talk) 00:45, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

I see what you mean. Really not sure what Meghan would make of that track! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:45, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

Fast

I was just putting your edit back. Dw is simultaneously trying to change the body of the article and the intro, which creates a conflict in the material being presented leading to omissions. Engage01 (talk) 15:02, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

No worries. Thanks for your note. Yes, it's more usual to get consensus at the Talk page first and then make any changes... Martinevans123 (talk) 15:06, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

That won't work sometimes. Dw is trying to "change the intro" and the body at the same time. That leads to havoc. Engage01 (talk) 15:28, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

It only works is people make the effort do it, lol. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:32, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

Not sure about "more usual". I think BRD works better, make a bold edit, and fine if it sticks, without (ab)using the time of other editors. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:04, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

That's a very good point. but I guess when a discussion is already open at the Talk page, editors tend to assume it's going to be settled there first. It usually pays to wait. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:26, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Sure, but it was suggested that you first obtain permission, and that's just not bold ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:58, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

I had to remind myself what this thread was all about. But then I was sorry that I did. I see that the OP was blocked for 2 weeks, on 22 February, for "egregious battleground editing". So if and when they return, I might make an effort not to involve myself in any way. I wasn't really involved in the substantive edits in any case. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:29, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

"Peace talks"

"Ukraine not attending US-Russia talks in Saudi Arabia.". Wow, so that's "... we'll just carve up your country, Mr Zelenskyy, and we'll let you know the outcome." Sounds a bit familiar? That didn't turn out too well. (and that one involved only one power-crazed dictator...) Martinevans123 (talk) 17:35, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

"You should have never started it. You could have made a deal. I could have made a deal for Ukraine." Just incredible. Ranks alongside Sergei Markov's claim, on the radio yesterday, that Putin's war was "not an invasion to the neighbouring country, but as humanitarian operation or to helping to the Russians who live in Ukraine..." Nice. Only 12,000+ Ukrainian civilians killed and 14,000+ captive. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:23, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

"You started it, so you can now sign over half your mineral wealth to help pay us back the $500 billion (that we've just invented) that the war has cost the US. (p.s. yes, sorry it was only a loan)" Martinevans123 (talk) 22:13, 24 February 2025 (UTC) p.p.s. we'll even get our Russian bezzies to come in and dig it all out for us. Yay!! Note to self: must nominate for WP:ITN (probably covered by "Ongoing")

"... not least the sight of the world burning in front of me." Hmmm, I'm still feeling slightly in shock. Trump and Vance & Co. Ltd.... our catchy slogan "Bridges burned in a matter of minutes!!" Martinevans123 (talk) 23:14, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

I thought I would wait 24 hours, to make sure I wasn't over-reacting. But no: shocking, sickening, embarrassing, childish, hurtful, disrespectful, bullying, ill-mannered, rude, impolite, discourteous, shameful, mocking, degrading, humiliating, mortifying, depressing, and much, much more. Brian Glenn, JD Vance wannabe: "Why don't you wear a suit? Do you own a suit?". Martinevans123 (talk) 19:21, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

p.s. do bone spurs get you out of military service in Ukraine?

p.p.s. "Can you now say thankyou to us, for all the support given to you by President Biden."

Just wow: "He was a smart guy you know. Tesla, first the light bulb and now this. He was like a modern day Isaac Neutron. It's remarkable. Really." Martinevans123 (talk) 17:53, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

So, the Canada–United States border was made "decades and decades" ago, not in 1846? And that"arbitrary straight line", just might be the 49th parallel? Yeah, so ugly on a map.... Martinevans123 (talk) 18:37, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Jeffrey Goldberg.... MAGA's got a brand new sleazebag? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:13, 27 March 2025 (UTC) ....if Goldberg is a "deceitful and highly-discredited 'so-called journalist" then why would you add him into your war planning group chat??

Copyvio

Extended discussion and improvements
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
[21] "Bethel Wesleyan Methodist Church, located at Cwm Isaac, was built in 1839, rebuilt in 1860 and enlarged in 1905. The present chapel, dated 1860, is built in the Simple Round-Headed style with a lean-to porch and central door entry." Source[22]: "Bethel Methodist Chapel was built in 1839, rebuilt in 1860 and enlarged in 1905. The present chapel, dated 1860, is built in the Simple Round-Headed style with a lean-to porch and central door entry." You again seem to be trying to avoid copyright violations or close paraphrasing by taking sentences from copyrighted sources, and then shuffling or modifying them a bit to fool the automated tools. But the results are still very problematic, and create poor sentences to boot. [23]"On 15 February 2025, Attorney General Lord Hermer announced that he would not be referring the case to the Court of Appeal, despite following multiple requests for the sentence to be reviewed." (bolding mine to show the poor result) Source: "But following multiple requests for the sentence to be reviewed, attorney general Lord Hermer KC responded on Friday night that he would not be referring the case to the Court of Appeal." From the same edit: "On 16 February, it was announced that the FBI and the United States Department of Justice had joined the investigation and were are reported to be helping UK police recover his deleted internet search history." (again evidence of your method) Source:"The FBI and the US Department of Justice have joined the investigation into the Southport killer, Axel Rudakubana, and are reported to be helping UK police recover his deleted internet search history." Most of your edits don't add text and don't have these issues, but when you do add text you seem to be reverting to the editing method which got you blocked in the past. Please avoid this. Fram (talk) 09:54, 19 February 2025 (UTC) Thank you for you considerate advice. I can assure you I am not "shuffling or modifying them a bit to fool the automated tools." I'm very surprised that editing errors should be interpretted as "again evidence of my method". Martinevans123 (talk) 10:07, 19 February 2025 (UTC) Perhaps you don't do it to fool the tools, but you are clearly taking sentences from sources and shuffling them around a bit, while adding or replacing one or two words (which introduced grammatical errors in these instances, making it easier to spot what you did). And yes, such minor modifications seem to have been your method, e.g. when looking at a discussion about getting you unblocked, there was reference to an edit you made in 2010[24]: "Silk Mill Lane derives its name from a silk mill powered by a waterwheel which once stood adjacent to where the brook crosses the Lane." Source[25]: "Silk Mill Lane derives its name from a bygone silk mill powered by a waterwheel adjacent to where the brook crosses the Lane." Taking a sentence, making some minimal changes only. This was given as an example of a copyright violation you made, and you didn't see the issue back then either. Fram (talk) 10:29, 19 February 2025 (UTC) I have to admit I had forgotten about that particular edit from 15 years ago. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:32, 19 February 2025 (UTC) You know the meaning of an example, right? It's not as if it's the only time you did this before now, your CCI is filled with similar cases. Fram (talk) 10:45, 19 February 2025 (UTC) You want to re-examine all the cases of my CCI now, just to remind me? A simple reminder of taking care to avoid copyvio might have just been enough for me? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:01, 19 February 2025 (UTC) @Diannaa:, as she is the go-to for all copyright issues around here. We seem to have a re-emergence of the issues that lead to the previous block and CCI, see above but e.g. also here, where things are taken straight from the copyrighted source: "The five churches of St Mary's Stow cum Quy, Holy Trinity Bottisham, St James Lode with Longmeadow, St Mary's Swaffham Bulbeck and St Mary's Swaffham Prior were united into the Anglesey Benefice in 2003. The vicarage is at Bottisham. Services are held in the church on most Sundays, normally at 9.30am. There are no other places of worship in Quy, but there is a very active Baptist Chapel at Lode." Source[26]: "The five churches of St Mary’s Stow cum Quy, Holy Trinity Bottisham, St James Lode with Longmeadow, St Mary’s Swaffham Bulbeck & St Mary’s Swaffham Prior were united into the Anglesey Benefice in 2003. The vicarage is at Bottisham." "Services are held in the church on most Sundays, normally at 9.30am." "There are no other places of worship in Quy, but there is a very active Baptist Chapel at Lode." Or here: "Tony Martin was born, into a well-off farming family, at Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, in December 1944. He was privately educated at Glebe House School in Hunstantonm and then at Cokethorpe School at Witney near Oxford. He left school at the age of 17 and did a variety of jobs, including working as a steward on linerss, on Scottish oil rigs and running a piggery at the family farm. He also spent several years travelling." Copyrighted source:[27] "Martin was born into a well-off farming family in Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, in December 1944. He was privately educated at Glebe House School in Hunstanton then at Cokethorpe Park near Oxford, leaving school at 17." "After school, Martin did a variety of jobs, including working as a steward on liners, on oil rigs off Scotland and running a piggery at his parents’ farm." "Martin also spent several years travelling." Like I said, most edits don't introduce text and thus don't introduce such copyvio's, but nearly every edit that does include new text is very closely paraphrased from the source. Fram (talk) 10:57, 19 February 2025 (UTC) Is this meant for me or for Diannaa? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:59, 19 February 2025 (UTC) These are obvious copyvios. Diannaa (talk) 14:13, 19 February 2025 (UTC) I had attempted to adjust these entries. If the relevant text is still judged to be copyvio, I will be happy to remove it. I understand, nevertheless, that you may still want to revdel intermediate versions, if you think they are serious breaches. If it's agreeable, I am happy to look back at all edits where I have introduced new text and to adjust them or remove them as appropriate. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:40, 19 February 2025 (UTC) Obviously these are serious breaches of Fram would not have posted here. Please re-write or remove the copyvio content in all of Fram's examples if it is still present in articlespace. Diannaa (talk) 15:08, 19 February 2025 (UTC) The example that he gave from 2010, you removed here, over two years ago. I am guessing that you did not consider it as a serious breech, as you did not suppress its visibility. But perhaps you'll now have second thoughts. The passages at Stow cum Quy and Tony Martin, I'd be happy to try and adjust further or remove altogether if you still think they are problematic. I removed the addition at Rhigos after less than a minute, and I have since removed and then re-written the associated entry at Cefn Rhigos. He also mentioned my edits at 2024 Southport stabbings, but did not make it clear if the existing text is still a breach of copyright. Thank you. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:21, 19 February 2025 (UTC) Rhigos, Cefn Rhigos: these are copyvio, like Fram points out. I have done the revision deletion of the original edit to Cefn Rhigos. The new version you added to it is not okay! here is a side-by-side comparison. Please fix this or remove it. Your new version: Bethel Wesleyan Methodist Church, was built in 1839, in the simple "round-headed style" It has central door entry and a lean-to porch. It was rebuilt in 1860 and enlarged in 1905. Source says: Bethel Methodist Chapel was built in 1839, rebuilt in 1860 and enlarged in 1905. The present chapel, dated 1860, is built in the Simple Round-Headed style with a lean-to porch and central door entry. Trimmed. But you will need to revdel. As I said, I attempted to rewrite that, after removing the original. I felt obliged to keep the actual dates and the names for the architectural features. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:21, 19 February 2025 (UTC) 2024 Southport stabbings: The content you added is still present in the article unaltered and need you to re-write it properly or remove it. Removed, but you will need to revdel. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:21, 19 February 2025 (UTC) Inglewhite: The edit was in 2010, and I removed it in 2022. That's twelve years of edits that would have to be hidden. I am no longer doing these huge revision deletions, as the consensus among many admins and editors is that the policy does not allow it. Some admins still do it that way, but I don't. Thanks for explaining. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:21, 19 February 2025 (UTC) Stow cum Quy: Similar to Cefn Rhigos; some words have been rearranged but all the same content is there, with only minor alterations. Please fix this or remove it. Removed, but you will need to revdel. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:21, 19 February 2025 (UTC) Tony Martin (farmer) The content is still present in the article and need you to re-write it properly or remove it. Trimmed, but you will need to revdel. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:21, 19 February 2025 (UTC) If you can't see what's wrong with these, you shouldn't be editing here, so sorry. --Diannaa (talk) 20:05, 19 February 2025 (UTC) Revision deletion is done on these. Smarten up or you will get blocked, with likely no clear path to being allowed back. No more copyvio please. Diannaa (talk) 21:45, 19 February 2025 (UTC) If the risk to the project is so large, it might be better if I simply left. Less for Fram to worry about. And less for you to clear up. Many thanks for your help. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:20, 19 February 2025 (UTC) I've waited a day before commenting, because I wanted to think it over and not speak rashly. Martin, I've defended you in the past, of course. But, assuming you come back after a break, you really need to take this very seriously, and clean up after yourself as much as possible. A lot of people, including me but also multiple others, have put a lot of hard work into helping you return after the last time, and I'm distressed to see you reverting to making the same kinds of mistakes again. You should have known better. I cannot defend this now, and I don't intend to. This is your responsibility. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:00, 20 February 2025 (UTC) Thank you for your candour, Tryptofish. I appreciate your plain speaking. I'm really sure that no one could reasonably see you as in any way responsible for my failings. Just like with all my previous failings. I think the cleaning up bit is admin territory. It's my job not to make a mess in the first place. But I think it's only fair to you (and the multiple others) if I try and rewrite these (pretty brief) additions in a copyright compliant way and get them agreed here. Then I should certainly rigidly stick to non-textual edits (the need for which is never lacking) for the time being. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:55, 21 February 2025 (UTC) Martin, as a friend over years I think you should commit to sticking to a certain type of gnomish editing, adding references and commenting on areas that you have an impressive depth of knowledge, incl Irish literature! But this current course is heading nowhere good. You are particularly excellent at for example RD, and often look to your nods from there. From a personal POV don't want to loose you as who the hell else will turn me on to one hand overlooked late 1970s/early 80s Can albums and on the other classic blues pianists. Dont shoot yourself in the foot[28]. Ceoil (talk) 21:39, 20 February 2025 (UTC) Thank you for your very kind words, Ceoil. Yes, that sounds like quite a good idea, although looks like the gun has already been discharged (or five barrels, in my case). But I feel I owe it to Tryptofish to at least offer an attempt at writing those additions in a coypyright compliant way. Probably here on my Talk page, as it seems to be immune from copyvio claims. Cefn Rhigos hasn't got a huge number of notable features and I think the mention of the chapel deserves to be slightly enlarged, even if the article eventually gets a AfD and is merged with Rhigos. Many thanks for that wonderful track (stunning harp). But I really must try not to muddy the waters. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:46, 21 February 2025 (UTC) Bethel Chapel, Cefn Rhigos There are currently three sources: , and As noted above, the principal source, coflein.gov.uk says: "Bethel Methodist Chapel was built in 1839, rebuilt in 1860 and enlarged in 1905. The present chapel, dated 1860, is built in the Simple Round-Headed style with a lean-to porch and central door entry. The current text, which has been left, is this: "Bethel Wesleyan Methodist Church, was built in 1839." So I think we can assume this is copyright compliant. However, as per the source, perhaps it should better be called a "Chapel". Can we assume this would also be copyright compliant, even though Church could be seen as paraphrase of Chapel? The second source calls it a "Church" and the third source calls it simply "Bethel Rhigos", although it is listed there under "Church finder". I'm sure about the use of an uppercase letter for Church, assuming it doesn't affect the copyright in any way. So can this sentence be extended to: "Bethel Wesleyan Methodist Church, was built in 1839, rebuilt in 1860 and enlarged in 1905."? Does this now violate copyright? It looks to me like a simple statement of facts in a chronological series. It would be quite odd to swap the dates. The three dates cannot be paraphrased, and I'm not sure the words "built", "rebuilt" and "enlarged" could easily be changed. Perhaps "initially constructed" could be used instead of "built"? And I suppose the word "extended" could be used instead of "enlarged", although I'm not entirely sure whether or not coflein.gov.uk uses these terms for different things. So we are then left with the facts, in the second 20-word sentence and how these might be used. In my rewrite I had added "was built in 1839, in the simple "round-headed style"". But this is not accurate as it was only built (or rebuilt) in the style in 1860. I put "round-headed style" in quotation marks, as this appeared to be an architectural term. But it also makes it a quotation, so I was assuming these three words would not necessarily be a copyright violation. Or does the upper case used in the source need to be retained? If the term constitutes a proper noun, again that seems to exclude it from copyvio? The terms "lean-to porch" and "central door entry" also look like they might be technical architectural terms, although they are also used more widely. I'm not sure how "lean-to porch" could be re-written. Perhaps "central door entry" could be rewritten as "has a front door in the centre of the front of the building", but this looks a bit clumsy. Perhaps swapping the two sentences, to something like this, would be possible: Bethel Wesleyan Methodist church has a central front door with a lean-to porch, in the "Simple Round-Headed" style. It was initially contstructed in 1839, rebuilt in 1860 and extended in 1905."? Would this satisfy copyright considerations? I've searched for a suitable internal link for "Simple Round-Headed", but cannot find one. If there's a suitable redirect link, perhaps someone with more architectural knowledge could advise. I don't think these 30 words represent an overly-detailed summary. But I'd be very pleased for any suggestions as to how this could be improved. I could move this discussion over to Talk:Cefn Rhigos, except that I suspect it has fewer watchers than this Talkpage. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:05, 22 February 2025 (UTC) p.s. searching for "Simple Round-Headed", I found Rhydlewis, which I see has a description of Capel Twrgwyn with no source (?) And that one is definitely not my fault. So, here's a starter for ten. "A Methodist church, Bethel Chapel, opened in 1839 and was rebuilt some 20 years later. It was further extended at the beginning of the 20th century. The architectural style is plain, with semi-circular arch windows and a central porch." If you were feeling particularly swanky, you could try Rundbogenstil (Round arch style) but I wouldn't. KJP1 (talk) 19:23, 23 February 2025 (UTC) I think that what KJP1 did there, in terms of getting away from the three years as they are written in the source, is a very good illustration of how to go about these things. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:30, 23 February 2025 (UTC) Thank you both immensely for your help. Never in a million years would I have thought of telling you a little story like that. (Well ok, never in a few weeks...) I have to admit I am still feeling particularly unswanky, but many thanks for the architectural tip. Do we want to go for the historical link to Methodist church, for when it was built (?) and as per the primary source, or the modern one for what it is now? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:20, 23 February 2025 (UTC) Yes, I guess "at the beginning of the 20th century" sounds nicer than "in 1905". But that's not a copyvio concern, is it? And the source information is only a click away, after all. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:42, 23 February 2025 (UTC) It's true that it sounds nicer, but it's also a much better approach from the copyvio perspective. It results in language on the page here that is not at all a copy from the source, and the (very slight) loss of detail is unimportant. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:48, 23 February 2025 (UTC) Yes, another alternative might be: "It was rebuilt in 1860 and extended 45 years later", although some editors might argue that two words are more concise than seven, and that there is no way the phrase "in 1905" can be protected by copyright? Another possibility might be "" Bethel Methodist chapel dates from 1860. With a plain architectural style, it has semi-circular arch windows and a central porch. It was originally built in 1839. The present structure was extended in 1905." Martinevans123 (talk) 09:40, 24 February 2025 (UTC) I think that last version (the "another possibility") is excellent. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:38, 24 February 2025 (UTC) Oh, thank you. Shall we just go with that then? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:41, 24 February 2025 (UTC)  Done It seems KJP1 is now happy with that last version, so have re-added. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:30, 28 February 2025 (UTC) References Tony Martin (farmer) The source text, from The Independent: "Martin was born into a well-off farming family in Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, in December 1944." "He was privately educated at Glebe House School in Hunstanton then at Cokethorpe Park near Oxford, leaving school at 17." "After school, Martin did a variety of jobs, including working as a steward on liners, on oil rigs off Scotland and running a piggery at his parents' farm." "Inspired by an uncle, Martin also spent several years travelling. Other possible sources are: The Daily Telegraphand The Times But both are paywalled. Current article content: "Martin was born into a farming family in Wisbech on 16 December 1944." Suggested rewrite: "Martin was born in Wisbech on 16 December 1944. Part of a prosperous farming family, he attended Glebe House School in Hunstanton and then Cokethorpe Park in Witney, West Oxfordshire, where he became an outstanding sportsman. Aged 17, he left school and started travelling, working on Australian farms and as a steward on ocean liners. He also worked on Scottish oil rigs and ran a piggery at the family farm." Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:28, 22 February 2025 (UTC) Martin - I'll absolutely take a look at these, and any more if necessary, and I'm sure other editors will chip in, either with issues or support. We've discussed before - more than once! - the challenges around parsing architectural terminology, but it has to be done. As you know, I'm pretty stuck in to another review on here just at present, but that is coming to a close, and I'll certainly find the time to look in. KJP1 (talk) 13:37, 22 February 2025 (UTC) Thank you indeed, KJP, for your speedy response. I'm sure there is absolutely no urgency for any of these. And, of course, other editors may coincidentally step in and add in missing information before anything is agreed here. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:45, 22 February 2025 (UTC) I like the suggested rewrite. Based on the quotes from the source material, as shown here, it does seem to me to avoid any copyright concerns. I don't know where, in the sources, the part about being an outstanding sportsman comes from, though. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:34, 23 February 2025 (UTC) I also like your re-write. My suggestion would be something like: "Martin was born in December 1944 in Wisbech, Cambridgeshire. His parents were prosperous farmers [nicked that from you] and he attended private schools in Norfolk and Oxfordshire. On leaving school he travelled extensively abroad and worked on cruise ships, oil rigs and on his parent's farm". I also couldn't see where the 'great athlete' bit came from. I think one of the keys is to remember we're writing in a summary style. You don't need to put in every detail that the sources have, e.g. do we need the actual schools, that he was a steward, that the oil rigs were Scottish, that he worked specifically with the pigs. Sometimes the detail will be critical and needed, often it won't, and not trying to have every detail that the source has makes it easier to avoid repetition. KJP1 (talk) 19:48, 23 February 2025 (UTC) Thank you both so much. The Telegraph source says this: "Though not bright academically, Martin was educated privately, first at Glebe House, a prep school in Hunstanton, where he won a prize for sports, then at Cokethorpe Park School, Oxfordshire, where he was his year’s outstanding all-round sportsman. Even then he was something of a loner, though there was little sign of the mental instability that would plague him in later life." "After leaving school aged 17, Martin began to travel, working on farms in Australia, serving as a steward on cruise liners in the Indo-Pacific, jumping ship in New Zealand and getting his first taste of prison as an illegal alien. He was away for several years and, even when he returned, he avoided the family farming business and went instead to labour on North Sea oil rigs." "Still a handsome, dashing young man who drove a Lotus Elan, he finally came back to Norfolk in the mid 1970s after the death of his grandfather, and took over the running of a pig farm on his parents’ property. In 1979, he inherited, from an aunt and uncle, Bleak House, a red-brick Victorian property outside the village of Emneth Hungate." Anything more there that you'd want to add in? Trouble is, I'm such a sucker for detail, I get drawn in. I named the boarding school as it's notable. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:12, 23 February 2025 (UTC) With that sourcing, I think some language about outstanding sportsman should be included, but the wording should be changed to something else. Instead of "outstanding", you could focus on there having been an award, and another word instead of "sportsman" should be found. If it's not covered elsewhere on the page, I think the prison sentence and the later mental health problems are clearly important for the page. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:21, 23 February 2025 (UTC) Of all of that detail, I think the only thing I would add is the Bleak House inheritance. That was subsequently the scene of the events for which Martin is known, and its name does have a certain irony. KJP1 (talk) 20:22, 23 February 2025 (UTC) But I wouldn't argue against, "he achieved sporting, although not academic, success" or some such. KJP1 (talk) 20:24, 23 February 2025 (UTC) That looks very neat. I'd be happy to go with that. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:27, 23 February 2025 (UTC) p.p.s And I've never heard of Cokethorpe School. It's hardly premier league. It was founded in 1957 for God's sake. KJP1 (talk) 20:29, 23 February 2025 (UTC) Fair enough. Perhaps I was thinking of St. Cakes. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:34, 23 February 2025 (UTC) I really struggled with a synonym for sportsman. And now I'll also be struggling with one for outstanding. Two words aren't worth any quotation marks, though. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:26, 23 February 2025 (UTC) I can think of a word that means the same thing as "sports", but does not start with an "s". And if he received an award for it, there's no need to add that he was outstanding. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:52, 23 February 2025 (UTC) Errrrm. How many syllables.... sounds like...? Unable to find any source that says what the sport actually was. I'm sure The Guardian would have told us if it had been one of those. My guess would be cross-country running. But I was loath to mention a prep school sports award as potentially being somewhat trivial. I can't think of anything more concise than KJP's seven words above. Perhaps, "At school, although a successful sportsman, he was not academically gifted."? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:24, 24 February 2025 (UTC) Errrm, [29]. I agree that it doesn't matter which sport, and I certainly hope it wasn't wheelbarrow racing (as much as I love that lead image). But I think that version you suggested is just fine. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:49, 24 February 2025 (UTC) Suggested rewrite (2): "Martin was born in Wisbech on 16 December 1944. Part of a prosperous farming family, he attended private schools in Norfolk and Oxfordshire. At school, although a successful sportsman, he was not academically gifted. Aged 17, he left school and started travelling, working on Australian farms and as a steward on ocean liners. He also worked on Scottish oil rigs, but eventually returned the family farm to run a piggery. In 1979 he inherited Bleak House, a Victorian property near Emneth Hungate, from an aunt and uncle." @KJP1:, @Tryptofish:, any comments? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:05, 25 February 2025 (UTC) (First, I'll re-ping KJP1, because adding the ping after you've already signed the comment doesn't work.) I don't see any copyvio problems, and I think it reads well. I'd suggest un-linking piggery, because it redirects to a page that I don't think is an accurate description of a family farm. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:04, 26 February 2025 (UTC) Many thanks. So some pingery, not any piggery. Sounds reasonable. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:13, 26 February 2025 (UTC) Beginning to wonder if your pingery got there. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:06, 28 February 2025 (UTC) Martin - sorry, got distracted by other things, not least the sight of the world burning in front of me. I think the draft is ok from a cv perspective, but from a “summary style” perspective it’s still too detailed. It’s 84 words thereabouts, and I think you could lose 20/30, at least, and still give readers the necessary information. Less is almost always more. KJP1 (talk) 21:11, 28 February 2025 (UTC) Oh, I see. I guess I'll have to think up a version three, then. While you're here, do we want another version of Bethel Chapel, Cefn Rhigos too? Or of Patrick Hurley?? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:15, 28 February 2025 (UTC) No. KJP1 (talk) 21:23, 28 February 2025 (UTC) Ok, cool. I'll have a go later. Just watching a documentary about the wonderful Roberta Flack. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:39, 28 February 2025 (UTC) So I'll assume you're happy with Bethel Chapel and will re-add. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:26, 28 February 2025 (UTC) Alternatively, I could just re-add that as it is and kindly ask either or both of you to trim it down as you see fit. Somebody suggested making a bit longer, by adding the bit about Bleak House, lol. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:33, 28 February 2025 (UTC) I guess KJP1 is approaching it differently than I am. For me, this is just a matter of copyvio cleanup, not (as it were) GA review, so I personally don't care that much about trimming, unless it's related to copyvio. Consequently, I'm unlikely to bother with trimming or lengthening, etc. But I do think that decreasing unnecessary details is a good exercise for you, in terms of getting away from feeling like you need to include every detail from the source. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:41, 28 February 2025 (UTC) I'm pretty sure my suggestion doesn't have "every detail from the source", but I know what you mean. I think it gives the bare bones of the first 35 years of his life. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:02, 28 February 2025 (UTC) Nine of those 20 words were already there. So I have added the new version. If any editors think it's too detailed, they are welcome to trim. Many thanks for your helpful advice.  Done. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:15, 1 March 2025 (UTC) References Stow cum Quy The source text, from Stow-cum-Quy Parish Council: "The five churches of St Mary’s Stow cum Quy, Holy Trinity Bottisham, St James Lode with Longmeadow, St Mary’s Swaffham Bulbeck & St Mary’s Swaffham Prior were united into the Anglesey Benefice in 2003. The vicarage is at Bottisham. "Services are held in the church on most Sundays, normally at 9.30am. Many of these are communion services." "There are no other places of worship in Quy, but there is a very active Baptist Chapel at Lode." I'm not sure how it is possible to paraphrase the names of the four other churches, which were included in my original addition. If these really constitute copyvio, they could be omitted and the article could just say: "St Mary's, alongside four other churches, is a part of the Anglesey Benefice, created in 2003." The days and times of services are perhaps just trivia, which could also be omitted, although it might be useful for the reader to know there is not a service every Sunday. As there is no article for the benefice, the location of vicarage might still be useful here. The fact that no other places of worship are mentioned in the article might already suggest that St. Mary's is the only one, although this would not be certain. Mention of the Baptist church could just be left to the Lode, Cambridgeshire article. Suggested rewrite: "St Mary's, alongside churches in four other neighbouring villages, is a part of the Anglesey Benefice, created in 2003, the vicarage for which is at Bottisham. Stow has no other places of worship. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:55, 22 February 2025 (UTC) I think the suggested rewrite is fine in terms of copyright. If you want to include the names of the four other churches, one way would be to have a footnote (perhaps using Template:efn) after "neighbouring villages," listing their names. It's probably not necessary to include the frequency of services. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:41, 23 February 2025 (UTC) I agree, the service times are another detail we could do without. We're not a gazetteer, and it rather reminds me of those articles on very minor English settlements - I've read a lot of those recently - that say, "There is a Nissa, two further convenience stores, a barbers, a cafe, and three pubs, the Black Sheep, the Jolly Roger, and the Moon in a Puddle". KJP1 (talk) 20:01, 23 February 2025 (UTC) And I love footnotes, so Trypto's on the four other churches would be great - {{efn|The other churches in the Anglesey Benefice are....}} KJP1 (talk) 20:07, 23 February 2025 (UTC) And I love that list of local trivia, even if I don't understand the language! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:23, 23 February 2025 (UTC) There's nothing wrong with the black sheep you know, he's often the last one the wolf can see." (old Welsh proverb, lol). Martinevans123 (talk) 20:30, 23 February 2025 (UTC) Sounds fine to me. Thank you so much. I'm am really so very grateful for your input here. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:21, 23 February 2025 (UTC)  Done. Hopefully this is now acceptable to all. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:33, 23 February 2025 (UTC) References 2024 Southport stabbings The source text from The Independent: "But following multiple requests for the sentence to be reviewed, attorney general Lord Hermer KC responded on Friday night that he would not be referring the case to the Court of Appeal." The source text from the The Guardian: "The FBI and the US Department of Justice have joined the investigation into the Southport killer, Axel Rudakubana, and are reported to be helping UK police recover his deleted internet search history." In criminal matters I often find if difficult to paraphrase legal procedures and outcomes. Obviously names and offices, which are usually proper nouns, cannot be paraphrased. I'm not sure whether "unduly lenient" should be included or not, although it's mentioned in The Independent headline, as it might be deemed obvious that this was the basis on which the requests were made. Suggested addition: ""Multiple requests were made for the sentence to be reviewed but, on 15 February 2025, Attorney General Lord Hermer announced that the case would not be referred to the Court of Appeal. On 16 February it was reported that the United States Department of Justice and the FBI were assisting UK police in recovering the web browsing history from Rudakubana's computer." I'm not satisfied with this suggested rewrite, because the language is still too close to the source material. I'd suggest going at it in the manner that KJP1 did for Bethel Chapel, above. (By the way, having noted your blue-link for "having a slight break" at the top here, I'm just glad that it isn't like Volume 1, Track 1 here .) --Tryptofish (talk) 19:49, 23 February 2025 (UTC) I see. Thanks for telling me. I will ponder on that a bit longer. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:23, 23 February 2025 (UTC) Oowch! That album title was appropriate enough for this thread (?). But, in my book, no-one does psychosis quite like our Kevin (... trouble is, I know just what he means). Guy was a genius. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:55, 23 February 2025 (UTC) An alternative phrasing: "On 16 February it was reported that UK police, in their efforts to recover the web browsing history from Rudakubana's computer, were being assisted by the United States Department of Justice and the FBI." Martinevans123 (talk) 09:44, 24 February 2025 (UTC) Yes, that's good. By George, he's got it! --Tryptofish (talk) 17:53, 24 February 2025 (UTC) Hmmm, thank you Rex, old chap. I really must channel my inner Audrey more often... If KJP is agreeable, I can add that and then take a look at the other topic. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:02, 24 February 2025 (UTC)  Done. Now re-added. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:23, 25 February 2025 (UTC) Other sources for Lord Hermer's decision: The Daily Telegraph: "The Attorney General has refused to apply to increase the sentence of the Southport killer. Lord Hermer said he would not attempt to increase Axel Rudakubana's 52-year jail term because there was "no realistic legal basis" for it. ... Rudakubana, however, was not given a whole-life order, leading to criticism that his sentence was "unduly lenient". ... Sentences can be referred to the Court of Appeal by the Attorney General if they are deemed to not be sufficiently severe. ... But Lord Hermer has declined to do so in this case after taking "independent legal advice."" BBC: "The Attorney General has rejected calls for the Court of Appeal to review the length of Southport murderer Axel Rudakubana's jail sentence. ... The calls to review Rudakubana's jail term came under the Unduly Lenient Sentence scheme, which allows members of the public to ask for sentences to be looked at by the Attorney General's Office. The scheme only applies to certain offences and an appeal is no guarantee that a sentence will be referred." The Guardian: "The sentence of the Southport killer will not be referred to the court of appeal under the unduly lenient sentence scheme, the attorney general has said. ... Axel Rudakubana, 18, was handed a 52-year minimum sentence for murdering three girls at a dance class, the second-longest sentence imposed by the courts in English history, but the Southport MP Patrick Hurley previously asked the attorney general to review the sentence as “unduly lenient”, saying it is “not severe enough”." Suggested addition: "Patrick Hurley, the MP for Southport, had asked the Attorney General Lord Hermer to review the sentence as "unduly lenient". Many similar requests were also made but, on 15 February 2025, Hermer announced that the case would not be referred to the Court of Appeal." I’m fine with the bit about the internet search history. The problem with the above is that it suggests that Lord Hermer would be doing the reviewing which he wouldn’t. He’s only got authority to refer. These legal terms present similar challenges to architectural terms; as soon as you try to rephrase you risk losing the meaning. But try we must. KJP1 (talk) 14:01, 25 February 2025 (UTC) Yes, of course, good point. So "...asked the Attorney General Lord Hermer to refer the sentence for review..."? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:02, 25 February 2025 (UTC) I see that The Torygraph makes the same mistake: "Lord Hermer said he would not attempt to increase Axel Rudakubana's 52-year jail term because there was "no realistic legal basis" for it". Martinevans123 (talk) 19:03, 25 February 2025 (UTC) I guess one might use "... would not be sent to the Court of Appeal..", although that's a bit informal. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:09, 25 February 2025 (UTC) If I look at this strictly from a copyvio perspective, I think it's fine, and I'm happy to see you getting much better at paraphrasing, which you are. As for KJP1's point (which is about precision, rather than copyvio), I'm afraid that I don't know enough about the legal aspects to give good advice. Given that the Telegraph said that Hermer "has declined to do so", it sounds to me like he had some sort of authority to refer or not, just not to "review". One option, if I'm right about that, would be to move "refer the sentence to the Court of Appeal as "unduly lenient"." to the end of the first sentence, and to end the second sentence with "would not be referred". --Tryptofish (talk) 20:31, 25 February 2025 (UTC) Passive voice is usually a good option. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:33, 25 February 2025 (UTC) Suggested addition(2): "Patrick Hurley, the MP for Southport, had asked the Attorney General Lord Hermer to refer the sentence to the Court of Appeal as "unduly lenient". Many similar requests were also made but, on 15 February 2025, Hermer announced that the case would not be referred." Perhaps KJP will also confirm this is acceptable. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:04, 25 February 2025 (UTC) Yeah, ok with that. KJP1 (talk) 21:21, 28 February 2025 (UTC)  Done. Now re-added. Many thanks both. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:24, 28 February 2025 (UTC) References

RIP Roberta Flack

RIP Roberta Cleopatra Flack (1937–2025). The hits were all brilliant and timeless. This from Quiet Fire (1971) is just wonderful: [30]. Lush but subtle orchestration. What a voice. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:38, 24 February 2025 (UTC) "Where's that bee and where's that honey? Where's my God and where's my money?"

ITN recognition for Roberta Flack

On 26 February 2025, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Roberta Flack, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Schwede66 20:35, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks, Schwede66. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:16, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Maggie Smith

Germans and crematoria, and the end of the line. I don't know how you can keep a straight face! DuncanHill (talk) 22:26, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Those pesky Germans just don't do play cricket! But they don't know how bad it feels to lose the ashes. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:06, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

RIP Damo Suzuki

Belated RIP Damo Suzuki (16 January 1950 – 9 February 2024): CAN - "Paperhouse" on Beat-Club, from Tago Mago (1971) Martinevans123 (talk) 15:37, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Or something more celestial, perhaps... Martinevans123 (talk) 18:52, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

It's the most wonderful time of the year

"I wandered lonely as a cloud,
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd,
Tyrfa o gennin pedr euraidd"
- Y Geiriauwerth

Dydd Gwyl Dewi Hapus. Nid wyf yn y swyddfa ar hyn o bryd. Afonwch unrhyw waith i'w gyfieithu. ♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 10:17, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

Dydd Gwyl Dewi Hapus, Ianto. Mae gan cymru rai o'r arwyddion ffordd gorau yn y byd! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:57, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

story · music · places

A bit early for for daffodils where I live ;) - Today is the birthday of Chopin and Ricardo Kanji, see my stories of today and yesterday, with dream music by the first and Bach played by the other. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks so much. Very lovely. Evgeny Kissin [31] (1999) Martinevans123 (talk) 12:01, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

Very lovely. I chose the other for sentimental memories of youthful Mozart Concertos ;) Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:20, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

At least he's trying! Good on you Wills! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:28, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you ;) - Today: Carmen turns 150, as the main page and my story tell you. I chose a 1962 concert of the Habanera, - enjoy! - A first: places up to yesterday, with very inspiring Hallelujah singing! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:23, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

On Ravel's birthday, we also think of a conductor and five more composers ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:49, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. The incomparable Martha. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:57, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! - Today Rossini's latest "sin", as the main page has --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:24, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, Gerda. Ha yes, "petite". How very ironic. Congrats on main page. Good old Rossini... A Clockwork Orange anyone: [32]? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:32, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

Never heard this, by Ottorino Respighi, until today. From 1928. Really magical. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:09, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Nor did I! - Today I could have written five stories off the main page, and chose Sofia Gubaidulina. I find the TFA also interesting, and two DYK, and a birthday OTD. How about you? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:15, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. Yes, TFA looks fascinating. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:21, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! - Today: an opera, 100 years old OTD, on Bach's birthday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:40, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

Today, 300 years of Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern, BWV 1! We sang works for (mostly) double choir by Pachelbel, Johann Christoph Bach, Kuhnau/Bach, Gounod and Rheinberger! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:31, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the links, Gerda. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:01, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

Two RD stories to say bye to March --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:55, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Joey Molland

On 8 March 2025, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Joey Molland, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Spencer^T•C 04:56, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks, Spencer. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:42, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Robin Trower

Happy 80th birthday, Robin Trower. Currently touring in the U.S., and will be in the U.K. in May: "Long Misty Days" (1976) Martinevans123 (talk) 17:00, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Elton John Citizenship

I added the fact that he was not a US citizen because it was a question that was nagging me as I read the section on his political views.

I will ask you the same question you asked me. Why is removing that sentence fragment from a paragraph on his views of US politicians is important to you? There isn't a section of his political views on any nation other than the US and the UK. Therefore, I say the type and amount of commitment to a nation he is criticizing is an important piece of information.

Another section down a few paragraphs talks of all of the properties he owns, half are in the UK, the other half in the US.

So, I ask again. How is his lack of citizenship NOT important? MissMaryMack14 (talk) 20:53, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Hello MissMaryMack14. I think this discussion would be best placed at Talk:Elton John. Would you like me to copy it over there, or would you like to do that? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:01, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

If you wish. I was responding directly to the question you posed when you reverted my edit about his non-citizenship in America. Perhaps you read this page through your Welsh eyes only. You had a visceral reaction to my edit, so I answered your question. MissMaryMack14 (talk) 00:08, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Maybe I need to check in with my Welsh optician. I'm not sure it was a " visceral reaction" - it was just a simple revert with a question. So would you like me to copy your question over to the Talk page, or would you like to do that? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:31, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Later in that section, we give John’s views on Russia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and Canada, but we don’t see the need to specify his nationality in relation to any of these. KJP1 (talk) 10:23, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Perhaps you read this page through your Russian glasses only? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:27, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

The issue for me is what's stated by the source: Jonathan Karl; Richard Coolidge; Sherisse Pham (25 July 2012). "Elton John: George W. Bush taught me a lesson". Yahoo!. Retrieved 27 June 2024. If they thought his nationality was relevant, I expect they would have said so. Otherwise, adding it in Wiki voice here looks to me like unjustified editorial/commentary. Unfortunately that Yahoo source doesn't open or me. Perhaps it only works for US readers lol. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:40, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

I apologize for my edit seeming to criticize John, it wasn't a slam on my part

I couldn't find a better place to add the information. Perhaps a lone sentence at the end of the entire section would be more palatable.

Regarding the visceral comment, it was said in response to the fact that the reversion came only 2 minutes after I added the information.

Regarding "your Welsh eyes," a UK editor once reverted a edit that stated Jane Austen's father's profession, stating, "everyone already knows this." I reminded that editor that you can't ascribe a level of knowledge to any Wiki reader. My question for your Welsh eyes was "are you reading this as a UK editor only, or are you considering all possible English readers. I know it is normal to feel a level of national ownership of celebrities. A continue to ask myself as an editor, "What information would a non-American want to know about this American? "

I hope that clears up my unclear prior comment.

Rock on Wales! MissMaryMack14 (talk) 18:57, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

No slam assumed or suspected. And I must admit that when changes appear at the top of my watchlist I frequently make reverts in less than 2 minutes. Um, we still haven't agreed who's going to copy over this thread to Talk:Elton John? (where I had hoped any discussion would have ensued) Martinevans123 (talk) 19:06, 13 March 2025 (UTC) p.s. I have no idea what Austen's father's profession was so, yes, I think that UK editor was probably wrong.

Perhaps you've given up? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:13, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

Brian James

RIP Brian James (1955–2025): "New Rose" (1976). Martinevans123 (talk) 22:03, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

2025 EFL Cup final

Ha-way tha toon!!! A lifetime o' pain finally remedied, like. Great goals. Great match. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:23, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks.

Hey Martinevans123, Just wanted to say thanks for the thanks when undoing the blanking of your user page, I normally don't get many thanks or recognition, so thanks man! Polaris (She/Her/Hers) (talk) 19:45, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

"'snow biggie, dude"... as they say in California(?) What a particularly hopeless troll that was... Martinevans123 (talk) 19:52, 18 March 2025 (UTC) p.s. excuse to post this, hope you like.

Five

You're a lot more active then I am, and I haven't done any WP: stuff for over a decade. Do you want to request semi-protection or whatever it is these days for Five (band)? OrangeDog (τ • ε) 08:47, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

Requested. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:12, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

Now protected until 04:38, 10 April 2025. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:14, 20 March 2025 (UTC)

Something of the night about him

This might be of interest to you. I read it as gutter journalism with a touch of racism thrown in. I might be getting paranoid. Xxanthippe (talk) 05:33, 28 March 2025 (UTC).

Thanks Xxanthippe, how intriguing. I remember it well. At least it's not about the Princes of Darkness. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:57, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Betty Webb (code breaker)

On 2 April 2025, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Betty Webb (code breaker), which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Spencer^T•C 07:44, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Fatty Unbuckle
........."Lip Up Fatty"!!

Thank you, Spencer. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:08, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Aw, Martin just did it for the sausage rolls. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:49, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

I can't deny it, alas. Martinevans123 (talk) 06:52, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Hot dog! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:06, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

"... jumping frog, Albuquerque" - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 20:14, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Two nations divided by the same language: is it "Does that come with fries?" or is it "Unmentionables in the sewerage"? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:17, 3 April 2025 (UTC) [33]

Warning: in line with the trade policy with our key trading partners, all incoming US hot dogs will be subject to a retaliatory tariff of 940%. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:12, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

Take a bow, Brian ....if you can. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:40, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

April music

story · music · places

My story today is about an opera singer born OTD in 1870. I have problems to say something as informative about Mirella Freni, as the DYK nom shows. -Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:49, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

There's someone else, born OTD, in 1949, who I regard as a genius! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:00, 3 April 2025 (UTC) [34]

Thank you! - The Freni hook was improved while I wrote. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:13, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the links, Gerda. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:15, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Tout est lumière. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:28, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

today: a woman in red --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:37, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

Next problem: WT:DYK#Good Friday. After I heard Bach's St John Passion yesterday (see music, you would have loved it), it occurred to me that I missed the work in prep, by a great woman inspired by it. - ALTs for the other run to m now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:59, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Today on BBC Radio 3: St Matthew Passion, with Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, Georg Nigl, Roderick Williams, Andrew Staples, Magdalena Kožená, Camilla Tilling, Mark Padmore and Augsburg Cathedral Boys' Choir, with Sir Simon Rattle. Just bliss. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:58, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

Great to hear! - We just sang five of the chorales. Check out my talk: for the great woman's Johannes-Passion (listen!), our music in detail, and three people who recently died and are on the main page (where she isn't). Collaboration has the first "no" and the second - for Easter - seems almost sure. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:18, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

A simply stunning performance. Apparently from last September. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:27, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

next, with thanks for the good wishes on my talk: my story about music that Bach and Picander gave the world 300 years (and 19 days) ago, - listen (on the conductor's birthday) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:49, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

The next cantata made it to the main page, - listen ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:48, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

I wrote my story today and then found it's the person's funeral day. - I hated to see DYK for Johannes-Passion (Gubaidulina) today instead of Good Friday, but it seems also right in the context. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:55, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

I finally managed to upload the pics I meant for Easter, see places. - Also finally, I managed a FAC, Easter Oratorio. I wanted that on the main page for Easter Sunday, but no, twice. You are invited to join a discussion about what "On this day" means, day or date. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:51, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

My music features Bach Bach Bach today ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:02, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

One can never have too much Bach. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:10, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

agree - did you notice that the birthday child conducts in the same place as the concert on the right? - looking forward to that piece with Tenebrae this summer! - the centre piece was stunning! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:30, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, Liza. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:35, 5 April 2025 (UTC) Ray Johnson - piano; Billy Preston - organ (aged 16 at the time)

Invitation to discussion

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kategate, if it is convenient for you to do so. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 14:02, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

Oh not, not this Monkey business again? Have !voted. Love 'em! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:57, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

Croquet

I saw some croquet references on your page. Do you play? Joesom333 (talk) 19:11, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Oh, really? You'll have to remind me, lol. It's over 30 years since I have played. And that was only at lunchtimes. And I wasn't exactly good, even then! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:13, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Lowell George

Born this day 1945, Lowell Thomas George, leader of Little Feat: "Long Distance Love" (1975) Martinevans123 (talk) 20:05, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

Pub lists

Martin, I'm cutting the lists down, sometimes drastically, so there's every chance that additions now will just disappear. Verb. sap. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:53, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

That's a great shame. I will miss them. But I trust your judgement as a very competent editor. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:55, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

Happy Easter!

Easter egg from Ukraine

Wishing you peace, joy, and renewal this Easter season. Thank you for all you do to keep Wikipedia growing and thriving. Stay well, and happy editing! MSincccc (talk) 08:21, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you, MSincccc! Happy Easter to you too! Wishing peace to all: [35] Martinevans123 (talk) 08:30, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

Revert

I’m absolutely convinced the NTSB was linked elsewhere in the article… and I now have absolutely zero clue where I got that idea from! Please excuse me while I withdraw to have my head examined and re-caffeinated… Danners430 (talk) 15:00, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

No worries. These abbreviations can sometimes be a challenge. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:05, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

I blame my processor having an ID10T error… Danners430 (talk) 15:09, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

😂 I've usually got one of those too! We can all but dream. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:14, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

That link to idiot-proof reminds me, I could use some of that, myself. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:59, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

"Aristotle, Aristotle, was a bugger for the bottle!" Martinevans123 (talk) 20:16, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Preach! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:24, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Just try to not take the car: [36]... Martinevans123 (talk) 20:57, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

George Galloway

I'm sorry about removing this tweet as a source. When I clicked on it as a link from the article page, it didn't work, but did work as a link on the talk page. It is now clear that Galloway has said that he wears a hat because of the 2014 attack, despite someone saying that it is because he is bald, which is classic unverifiable material. I think it should be put back with something like "In a 2019 tweet, Galloway said that he wears the hat to cover scars from the 2014 attack." This makes clear how it is being attributed, and although Twitter isn't an ideal source, it does come from his blue tick Twitter account. ♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 20:29, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

No worries, easily done. Your suggestion sounds good. I'm seeing very little WP:RS support for any Galloway baldness. But you never know what will turn up on a Talk page! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:38, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Well, I just learned that we have List of people known as the Hairy, LOL. Learn something new every day. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:19, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Watch out you fish!! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:34, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

Back atcha, Marten. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:53, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

The April 2025 talk page threads have more or less hit the WP:DFTT stage. Nothing has been suggested that would prove the article wrong, at least from reliable sources. It has been a useful opportunity to look at the sourcing and tidy things up.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 14:26, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

I didn't even know he was bald! I thought maybe it was Bubbles. **sob** Martinevans123 (talk) 14:31, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

Haydn

String Quartet No. 62 in C Major, Op. 76, No. 3, Hob.III:77, "Emperor": II. Poco adagio, cantabile A truly lovely tune that became something else that he perhaps could not have imagined. The song very popular for many years, of course, on the terraces of The Old Den, with those haunting adapted lyrics "Get your tits out for the lads". Martinevans123 (talk) 17:06, 4 May 2025 (UTC) ... not Millwall... but still "England's finest" (?). "Come on you Reform!!"

May music

story · music · places

Bach's cantata was performed 300 years ago, by occasion. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:33, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

That's so nice. Gerlinde Sämann, Terry Wey, Georg Poplutz and Markus Volpert. Just wonderful. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:49, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for mentioning two articles I wrote ;) - Today's main page has again memories of three people who died, for two just the name and for the third an image (great!) coupled with a little bit from her life which seems too little for my taste. What do you think? - A friend of mine sang in Verdi's Requiem at Trinity Church, - you can watch the lifestream (Verdi about 30 minutes into it). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:56, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

Good for her to have a picture. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:35, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

The hook was improved in the end. - Recommended reading today: Christfried Schmidt, a story about patience. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:23, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks for the link. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:37, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

check my talk today for two pics of Margot Friedländer --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:27, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

now May Abrahamse (with uncertain licensing of portrait), and Vakhtang Machavariani (nominated) who composed an orchestral piece about Mariupol! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:12, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

listen to Machavariani's Mariupol --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:49, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the link, Gerda. Good old Georgia! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:33, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

thank you for listening! - musings on 15 May --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:40, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Just in case you didn't watch tonight.... Australia, who should have won, are not even in the final! quite shocking Martinevans123 (talk) 21:27, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

sorry, I didn't watch - birthday of Erik Satie - can we get his article to GA for his centenary of death? Your name was one of many in the history. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:59, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

I suppose that's possible, as there's over a month left until then. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:21, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Someone would have to nominate, and someone would have to review, and someone needs to push because reviews sometimes are not begun in months. I can play only the latter role ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:09, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Hmmm, you've already put me off. As you know, I don't mind doing anything at Wikipedia, as long as it doesn't require any effort. I might lend hand, if needed. But he is an interesting character. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:47, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Hmmm, after the one who wrote 81% doesn't want to get involved, this had to be expected. It will require some effort to read [[Alla Osipenko. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:26, 19 May 2025 (UTC)]]

all Verdi today: tenor Luigi Alva and the premiere OTD of his Requiem, see my talk - remember that early in the thread there was a link to a performance? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:06, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the links, Gerda. Alva previously unknown by me. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:19, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Here's a song from 1976 that probably deserves its own article. Just one of her best. Exquisite: [37] "It seems we all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:36, 24 May 2025 (UTC) (Is it possibly to perform that song even better live? Apparently, yes)

I'm on a train to Vienna so can't listen anytime soon. Was too tired last night to tell you about Jadwiga Rappé, and now she's already almost off the main page. The best of the recordings was of the Szymanowski Stabat Mater but wile Zofia Kilanowicz is shown in the foreground, expressively, some logo hides the other's face for all samples I looked at. Imagine that the soprano sang for us once! She was incredible, entering high and softly out of nowhere! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 04:51, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

A first: a story about two people who worked together and died the same day --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:39, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

much better live! - Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, born 100 years ago, described by Alan Blyth - listen to friendly vision if you haven't - don't remember if I gave you that --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:20, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. Don't remember either. Blyth was right, but his Schubert surely his best. Just a giant. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:51, 28 May 2025 (UTC) p.s. yes, the live version is slightly faster, more driving. But, to my mind, the original fretless bass on that track is just sublime. Perhaps some of his best work. Mitchell's phrasing, delivery, sheer poetry, unsurpassed. Incredible.

thank you for pointing at the bass, - and at the performer who died (needing refs)! - reasons to look at Bach (and listen): it's a recent GA (not by me), he assumed the position of Thomaskantor OTD in 1723, he's up for PR, and several of his cantatas for GA, and his Easter Oratorio for FAC --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:41, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

another reason for Bach: the village organ he played, and we can still listen to its sound --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:22, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

How amazing. Sounds wonderful. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:31, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Dorothy Love Coates (January 30, 1928 – April 9, 2002)

Here's Dorothy Love Coates and the Original Gospel Harmonettes, from 1957, with "Get Away Jordan": [38] -lyrics Superb! (have to thank Jools for this one) Martinevans123 (talk) 20:23, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

will listen on Sunday ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:59, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

listened on Sunday: so much life in death --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:08, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Yes, indeed! Martinevans123 (talk) 07:55, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan

In my footnote addition about Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan you removed David Price and his wife Elizabeth Gwilim living in Brest y Garth cottage in Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan, evidence of the cottage name and occupation only known from the GRO Birth Registration for his son David Price (1853-1925) -- information not in the Clwyd Powys Archaeological Trust document. Being my great great grandfather and great grandfather, I appreciate that this history is much more important to me than you. PwyllDafydd (talk) 14:01, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello PwyllDafydd. Thanks for your note. You added material as a reference with a bare url and I changed it to a footnote with a reference. But I didn't remove anything? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:04, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

My mistake, apologies. Browser issue. PwyllDafydd (talk) 14:10, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

P.S. Improved as a note, which format I will remember in future contributions of the kind, thank you for your instructive change. PwyllDafydd (talk) 14:19, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

No worries. Yes, that particular history looks like it's of much more interest to you. Articles normally only mention notable residents or those who have made the news. I myself am related to the Davies family of the Red Lion, who kept the pub from 1910 until 1991! (via the Davieses of Brynyoye) Martinevans123 (talk) 14:21, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

Understood, thank you. While not a notable resident, among the only residents and, again, clarifies what the cottage remnants are described in the CPAT article. I read about the Red Lion at https://peoplescollection.wales, etifeddiaeth falch. PwyllDafydd (talk) 14:31, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

I have no objection to the details you have included. Ah yes, a nice source there, here it is! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:37, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

UK nationalities

Hi Martin. Sorry to bother you but I need to borrow your Wikibrain™ or that of some helpful stalker(s). Do we have rules or guidance on UK nationalities? Every so often I have a run in with some zealot who says you can't write that someone is English/Welsh/whatever because that is not a nationality, and wants to "correct" things to British and the UK. My gut feeling is that this sort of posturing is just bad manners and that UK national issues are best left well alone. I have a vague feeling that I have seen guidance or a discussion on this but I don't know where. I'm currently keeping an eye on an IP editor who seems to be on some anti-Welsh-nationality crusade which I personally find very annoying and condescending and which I revert when I can. But of course if I don't know the letter of the law – or even if one exists – then I might be completely in the wrong and unjustly persecuting some righteous and wholly innocent editor. (I doubt it though.) Any light that you can shine on this murky situation, or links to policy, project discussions, etc, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and best wishes, DBaK (talk) 22:09, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

As a stalker from the colonies, I don't follow those disputes, but I looked up the logged sanctions. The only one that is currently in effect, link, has to do with units of measurement. There are two others that are no longer in effect, link and link, that may or may not be worth looking at. My vague impression is that the second of those two latter ones is what is most relevant to you, and I think the sense of it remains the same, although it is no longer enforceable. There could very well be various RfCs that have happened, but I wouldn't know about them. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Helpful(ish) stalker here. Sometimes someone decides to change all the English/Welsh/Scottish/Cornish/(some)Irish to British, and sometimes someone decides to do the reverse. A few of the editors on either side are evading blocks, some seem to swap sides from time to time, and others have had a Damascene conversion and just want to share the TRUTH! with the world. A plague on all their houses. If somoene is doing this sort of thing en masse then they probably shouldn't, especially if they haven't tried to discuss it first. It may be worth raising it at WP:AN to see if it rings any "returning sock" type bells. DuncanHill (talk) 23:01, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi DBaK. I've already tried to donate my Wikibrain™ to science, but they said they don't want it. Am currently trying to get a swap. But I promise will ponder on that .... Martinevans123 (talk) 06:40, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

WP:UKNATIONALS may be of interest. John (talk) 06:43, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

I hear what you are saying, DBaK, and in any case, thanks for reaching out on this. I really feel like I should lean in and pick off some of the low-hanging fruit. Hopefully, in the fulness of time, we can bucketise some of your concerns and really cross-pollinate some of the higher-level learnings. I'd really like to sharpen the point of this Wiki pencil. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:03, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Yes, there's some advice in the "Present-day UK nationality (examples of use)" section of that link John has kindly sent. I must admit I try to avoid getting into mini-edit wars on this score. But I do generally revert if there's a long-standing consensus and the edit summary suggests some kind of pig-headed national zealotry (and yes, I do more often suspect IP editors). But there seems to be no hard-and-fast rules that can be applied. As a comforting rule-of-thumb, I personally tend to go with "British" if that person's "sphere of influence" is across the UK. But many of those people often have obvious and strong links to a given single home nation e.g. this guy and this one. I sometimes find myself Googling for statements like "I am a British so-and-so..." or "I am a Welsh such-and-such..." (often with limited success). It's often worth a Talk page discussion. But it's a bit of minefield. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:28, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Well, I just made this edit: [39]. The mind reels. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:31, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

How very dare you! "Let's Make Benji Grate Again!" Martinevans123 (talk) 20:46, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Thank you all very much! It's given me plenty to think about, and yes, I suspect that the "Present-day UK nationality (examples of use)" bit was what I half-remembered having seen. It's quite useful! Thanks, all DBaK (talk) 08:12, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

I should perhaps add that the editor who was annoying me with (what I felt was) an irrational mini-crusade seems to have given up, or is at least pausing for breath. Crisis (temporarily?) over. Thanks again, everyone, for the very useful and interesting input. DBaK (talk) 10:44, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Ah yes, a mini-crusade. Always good to have a sense of purpose! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:50, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Indeed! Splendid clip, thanks Martin. DBaK (talk) 17:15, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

Haha. I shall follow thee on thy sacred and noble quest, oh master! (coconut shells at the ready, Sire...!) Martinevans123 (talk) 17:43, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

On the subject of the lottery winning numbers

I saw the comment you wrote before it was removed by some busybody, and I must say that although I seldom remember my dreams, and I don't believe I have ever dreamt about the lottery tickets, if I should ever dream the winning numbers up, you will be the first person to hear from me! Szchalchsz (talk) 18:51, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

P.S. George Galloway-related articles need cleaning up. Only you can fix them! Szchalchsz (talk) 18:52, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

When I start to dream about David Cameron I'll know it's time take a long holiday from this place. Ah yes, dear old George. I can still see him purring for Rula Lenska, alas. Another bad dream... Martinevans123 (talk) 18:57, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

At least he has never slept with the girlfriend of a Russian spy! Nor has he eaten a camel's, um, thing...

Anyway, the Galloway articles continually minimize the role his party(ies, he's worse than Farage for this) have played in shifting public discourse. They also seem to downplay the fact that he is a little keen on an oligarchic Russia – not exactly the model of government he promotes in Britain. The rot is deep, and ONLY YOU can fix it! Szchalchsz (talk) 19:06, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

I still feel sorry for Cameron for gambling away all of his credibility on the Brexit vote. Even a begrudging respect when compared to the horrors that came next. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:42, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Clearly the referendum had to be held when so many people wanted out. The leave campaign just happened to have better and more charismatic leaders. Ideally from a British perspective, the UK would have done what Hungary does these days and fleece the EU. All the perks, none of the burdens. To be fair to Cameron, he had previously won, what, three referendums? (Alternative vote, Falklands, Scotland). The horrors that came after him are partially his fault. May wasn't particularly catastrophic either, but Johnson he had helped elevate to the forefront of British politics. Szchalchsz (talk) 19:51, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

My thoughts entirely. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:01, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Thankyou

I just wanted to send a brief message to thankyou for the work you do in relation to editing articles about Devon. My interests are relatively narrow in relation to your own but where they overlap your advice and contributions have always been constructive, fully justified and helpful to novice Wikipedians such as myself. It goes without saying I am very grateful to you for your interest in my beloved county. Bw, 82.38.214.91 (talk) 19:15, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Dear IP82, what a very nice thing to say. Thank you so much. I've been trying to get my watchlist below 15,000 for the past few years, with no success, alas. I have great affection for that county next to Devon and for Devon itself. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:46, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Welcome. I only apologise for not sending this message sooner. Wikipedia is a big distraction from 'my-to do list'. All the best. 82.38.214.91 (talk) 20:01, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Martin, are Scrumpy and Western related to Ren and Stimpy? --Tryptofish (talk) 20:04, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Sheesh. That's like asking "are Penn & Teller related to Teller and Penn?" !! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:51, 16 May 2025 (UTC) (p.s. but yes, they are)

Mahler Symphony six

Hi there! I saw your message. Thank you for being so welcoming! I tried to click on the topic, but it appears to be closed. Anyway, my source is David Hurwitz's guide on the Mahler Symphonies. I may be mistaken, but he looked at the original score for the piece, so I trust him as a source. The critical edition doesn't list the full instrumentation, so if anyone was confused, I can understand. I should probably open a new thread on the sixth's article. You may have noticed, but I have also added to the first, third, and seventh's instrumentation, although those were pretty minor edits.

The ripper004 The ripper004 (talk) 18:33, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi The ripper004, thanks for your note. Sorry, there was spelling error. You need to copy this over to Talk:Symphony No. 6 (Mahler)#Instrumentation. I will comment there if necessary. Many thanks Martinevans123 (talk) 18:43, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Best/favorite Mahler Symphony?

"Nice day for yet another Symphony, Alma?"

You seem pretty active on the Mahler Symphonies and their articles, so I'm curious; what's your favorite Mahler Symphony? For me, its the third symphony. That final movement is one of the best in symphonic literature. The ripper004 (talk) 23:36, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

I am not a huge fan of Mahler (although I cannot deny his symphonic genius) and I think my editing on those articles have been quite limited! I might well go along with the Third although, thanks to Visconti, there's also the amazing Fifth. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:11, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

Funny, I never found the fifth to be all that amazing. Even regarding the adagietto; I believe he has better slow movements, especially the finale of the third. The ripper004 (talk) 17:58, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

Oh dear. I shall now have to binge-listen to them all again. Will only take me about 15 hours... Martinevans123 (talk) 18:09, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

If you want to go insane, listen to them all in one sitting. In all seriousness, though, start with the first. It's short, easy, and has all the things that makes Mahler Mahler. The ripper004 (talk) 18:14, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

Sounds like a good place to start, thanks! Martinevans123 (talk) 18:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

Let me know if you change your mind about Mahler. His works are amazing if you give them the proper amount of time, and they definitely can't be digested after only one listening. Happy listening! The ripper004 (talk) 18:37, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

Meanwhile.... here's a bit of Jeff Beck (demo from 2005): [40] Martinevans123 (talk) 17:40, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Symphony No. 3 (Mahler) edits

Hi Martin! How has your day been? Recently, I organized the page for Mahler's third symphony. Whoever typed the last one out did a substandard job at best; no headings and barely any descriptions. I gave the movements headings and added a bit to their descriptions. As an experienced editor, what do you think? Sorry to bother you.

The ripper004 The ripper004 (talk) 21:54, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello The ripper004. Symphony No. 3 (Mahler) looks good to me, thanks. I think your edits there are all good improvements. A good editor to ask for opinion and advice on classical music articles is Gerda Arendt, who is far more knowledgeable and active than me! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:39, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Ok! I'll make sure to check him out. The ripper004 (talk) 16:39, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Or even her, lol. (apols. Gerda) Martinevans123 (talk) 16:46, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

I have little time, but liked the changes that I saw from my watchlist ;) - no Jungfrau, sorry ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:03, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Haha. We can all but dream. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:17, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Ƿestseaxna rīċe

Ƿestseaxna rīċe literally means 'the kingdom belonging to the West Saxons', or 'the kingdom of the West Saxons', in a more usable translation. The suffix -na is a contraction of -ena which is a weak genitive form. Urselius (talk) 12:19, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello Urselius. Thanks for your note. I guess, if that's to be included in the infobox at the Wessex article, it would need to appear somewhere in the main body with a source? It might be a good idea to open a discussion thread at Talk:Wessex. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:48, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Beautiful as the Moon.ogg

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:Beautiful as the Moon.ogg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of non-free use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:09, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Has been replaced at "Beautiful as the Moon – Terrible as an Army with Banners" with a link to the audio of the full track. Can't really be used anywhere else. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:29, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

RIP Rick Derringer

RIP Richard Dean Zehringer (August 5, 1947 – May 26, 2025): amazing guitarist and producer extraordinaire: Frankenstein (1972). Album version!! Martinevans123 (talk) 09:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

June music

story · music · places

The places: a day full of great discoveries, culminating in Oliwa Cathedral which was called a must-see by Graham Waterhouse (subject of my first article, filling a red link) who played the organ once. Dinner right next to the Abbot's Palace, where Penderecki had also been a guest.

The story: Bazon Brock spoke at an exhibition at Kolumba to honour Anna and Bernhard Blume on her 80th birthday. [41] Did you know "An Anna Blume"? -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:54, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

Van der Graff Generator

According to Martin C. Strong's book, The Great Rock Discography, Godbluff was issued in October 1975. I am sure that AllMusic and the hopelessly reliable Discogs give similar information. Not certain that which day in that month is that relevant; albums are often released on differing dates in different territories. The book is ISBN 9-781841-950174, page no. 1026, Fifth edition, 2000, Mojo Books. Oh, and no fee to be paid to me either (well, not this time) ! I suppose I could have edited that in the article but it is getting late and I need my beauty sleep - god, how I need my beauty sleep !! - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:57, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks, Derek. Yes, it's in the AllMusic entry, so already sourced via that I guess. But now I could add the more impressive Strong book and pretend I found it! Quite agree about the day of the month - back in the good old vinyl times, I'm pretty sure record shops in different parts the UK would get their stock on different days... Martinevans123 (talk) 08:06, 4 June 2025 (UTC) p.s. ah yes, beauty sleep. I never get enough either... I must be daft.

"Bloody Well Right"

Using the same source as above (page 957 this time), there was a slightly complicated history. "Dreamer" was released in the UK in December 1974 (AMS 7152) with "Bloody Well Right" on the B-side. "Dreamer" reached number 13 on the UK singles chart. However in the US the sides were flipped (I do not know why - but you know the Yanks; no taste and fat everywhere), with "Bloody.." being released there as top billing in March 1975 (AMS 1660), peaking at number 35 in the Billboard Hot 100. As before, "No Charge" applies; even when you do claim the credit ! Oh, and 'Good Morning' (I am assuming you've succumbed, as any sensible person would have, to beddy-byes by now). - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:44, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Awwww, gee thanks, ya shouldn'a. As you know, "...all things considered, "the cost of real love is no charge": "My little boy came into the kitchen this evenin', while I was fixin' supper. And he handed me a Wikipedia essay on sources he'd been writing on. And after wipin' ma hands on ma apron, I read it... and this is what it said....": **sob** Martinevans123 (talk) 08:08, 5 June 2025 (UTC)