Template:Did you know nominations/Elon Musk gesture controversy
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Sohom Datta talk 17:26, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
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Elon Musk salute controversy
- ... that the German law enforcement is investigating the projection of Elon Musk's salute onto Berlin's Tesla factory over the use of an illegal salute?
- ALT1: ... that Elon Musk has called for Wikipedia to be defunded over its coverage of his salute, leading Wikipedia co-founder Jimmy Wales to state that "Elon is unhappy that Wikipedia is not for sale"? Source: 'Defund until': Elon Musk slams Wikipedia over 'Nazi salute' claim
- ALT2: ... that Elon Musk's representative in Italy has defended Musk's salute, stating that Musk "is autistic" and was expressing his emotions rather than emulating fascism? Source: "He later deleted the post, writing that Musk 'is autistic,' and was expressing his emotions but denying he was emulating fascism."
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas Burdet
- Comment: I dare nominate a spicy one. This article is still undergoing a deletion discussion and will need polishing, but it had to be nominated in time.
Created by SolxrgashiUnited (talk), Maykiwi (talk), and Crelb (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 211 past nominations.
Surtsicna (talk) 01:48, 28 January 2025 (UTC).
- Comment. I'm not wholesale opposed to this article running on DYK (subject to the deletion nomination), but I think the three hooks presented all have issues, mostly to do with neutrality/WP:DYKHOOKBLP. I don't think we should be running any hooks that are in the format "Living Person X is under criminal investigation", because that effectively amounts to an implication of wrongdoing and, unlike news outlets, we don't rerun a blurb if the person being investigated is absolved. ALT1 seems to be more about Musk's views on Wikipedia than the boldlinked article; the quote from Jimmy Wales is currently not even mentioned in the article, so we have an instance where the hook is actually more informative than the article it links to. I'm also biased against "meta" hooks that reference Wikipedia in general although there's no policy against it. With ALT2, I don't really see a circumstance in which someone tagging a public figure with a neurodevelopmental disorder can be presented neutrally as a hook. I T B F 📢 12:31, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
- Comment. Proposing new hooks as not a fan of ALT2 for above reasons, nor a the sort of self-promotion in ALT1. I think these are much more neutral as a statement of fact than a personal opinion. Edit: Also adding ALT4 as another fact over negative opinion, while tying a GA into the mix.
- ALT3: ... many Reddit moderators banned links to X in protest of Elon Musk's salute? Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c77r1p887e5o
- ALT4: ... that the anti-Brexit activist group, Led By Donkeys, projected an image of Elon Musk's salute onto a Tesla Gigafactory in Berlin? Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/snl-elon-musk-michael-che-nazi-salute-b2686731.html
- I disagree with you both regarding ALT1. Readers of the front page are almost certainly interested in the site and so hooks about Wikipedia inherently meet WP:DYKINT. I'd word the hook differently, however: ALT1a: ... that Elon Musk called for Wikipedia to be defunded over its coverage of a salute he made at the second inauguration of Donald Trump?--Launchballer 01:28, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- I disagree with the above claim that all hooks about Wikipedia are automatically interesting or should be preferred. In fact, personally I believe that such a viewpoint should be discouraged. See for example WP:NAVEL which shows that referring to Wikipedia or putting emphasis on Wikipedia in content is, at the very least, controversial. Ideally, we should be avoiding references to Wikipedia in hooks whenever possible, and I don't see why this should be an exception. ALT3 especially seems like a more appropriate option in this case since it's neutral, it's not unduly focusing on Wikipedia, and it sidesteps the concerns regarding criminality. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:33, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
- ALT3 is boring. Concerns regarding whose criminality, Narutolovehinata5? ALT0 does not say that Musk is being investigated. Surtsicna (talk) 22:51, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
- I don't see how ALT3 is boring (unless your preference is one of the political hooks), and the criminality concerns weren't mine but ITBF's. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:42, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
- ALT3 is boring. Concerns regarding whose criminality, Narutolovehinata5? ALT0 does not say that Musk is being investigated. Surtsicna (talk) 22:51, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
- I disagree with the above claim that all hooks about Wikipedia are automatically interesting or should be preferred. In fact, personally I believe that such a viewpoint should be discouraged. See for example WP:NAVEL which shows that referring to Wikipedia or putting emphasis on Wikipedia in content is, at the very least, controversial. Ideally, we should be avoiding references to Wikipedia in hooks whenever possible, and I don't see why this should be an exception. ALT3 especially seems like a more appropriate option in this case since it's neutral, it's not unduly focusing on Wikipedia, and it sidesteps the concerns regarding criminality. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:33, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
- I disagree with you both regarding ALT1. Readers of the front page are almost certainly interested in the site and so hooks about Wikipedia inherently meet WP:DYKINT. I'd word the hook differently, however: ALT1a: ... that Elon Musk called for Wikipedia to be defunded over its coverage of a salute he made at the second inauguration of Donald Trump?--Launchballer 01:28, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- ALT5: ... that an activist group projected an image of Elon Musk's salute onto a Tesla Gigafactory with the phrase "Heil Tesla"? Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/snl-elon-musk-michael-che-nazi-salute-b2686731.html TarnishedPathtalk 13:04, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
- Is that spicy enough without causing any of the concerns raised above? TarnishedPathtalk 13:07, 8 February 2025 (UTC)
Full review needed, including the various hooks. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:40, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
- @Surtsicna: I was just about to review this, however WP:DYKCOMPLETE demands that articles be free from "unresolved edit-warring" and this very clearly isn't. When this stabilises, ping me and I will review this.--Launchballer 09:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
- @Launchballer the edit warring has now stopped due to EX protection being placed on the page after I requested it. TarnishedPathtalk 10:19, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
- Thank you. This is long enough and new enough and the QPQ is complete. As the title of this article uses the word "salute" instead of "gesture" this should probably be replaced in all hooks; I remain in favour of ALT1a, however ALT5 checks out and I would be willing to approve it. That said, there are a few claims cited to Business Insider, The Daily Beast, Newsweek, and The Times of India - what makes them reliable? Also, I think the "hung upside down" sentence could take a rewording per WP:CLOP.--Launchballer 11:18, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Launchballer, all wikilinks and hooks have been updated to account for the article page move. I'm not going to comment on the reliability of Business Insider, The Daily Beast, Newsweek, or The Times of India. TarnishedPathtalk 12:03, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
- I haven't had a chance to look at The Times of India source, but I wanted to comment that I found something very odd going on with India-related sources several weeks ago while writing about the Proposed Danish acquisition of California, to the point that I decided to completely abandon the topic and refuse to nominate it for DYK. I discovered India-related sources injecting various forms of right-wing disinformation into this topic coverage, and it freaked me out to such an extent that I took the entire article off of my watchlist. I would recommend someone look carefully at The Times of India coverage and fact check it just to be sure. There's some very strange funny business going on. Viriditas (talk) 23:34, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
- That's not good. I'd take that up with WP:RSN.--Launchballer 23:42, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
- Note, there's a followup to the TOI source from The Economic Times, also from India, that goes beyond the original TOI reporting. It also cites the opinion of historian Claire E. Aubin (University of California, Davis?) who says it was a Nazi salute.[1] Viriditas (talk) 23:50, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Launchballer and @Viriditas, TOI has been the subject of two RFC's at WP:RS/N, with issues that Viriditas raised forming part of those discussions. See WP:TIMESOFINDIA for more details. I'm going to remove it if the content has another citation. TarnishedPathtalk 07:04, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Launchballer. I removed Times of India the other day. I've just gone through and removed Daily Beast, business Insider and two of the instances of Newsweek. I've left one instance of Newsweek as it is only used for attributing to a history professor. I've also edited "hung upside down" -> "hung in the same manner". Please let me know if this is sufficient. TarnishedPathtalk 13:23, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
- That's not good. I'd take that up with WP:RSN.--Launchballer 23:42, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
- I haven't had a chance to look at The Times of India source, but I wanted to comment that I found something very odd going on with India-related sources several weeks ago while writing about the Proposed Danish acquisition of California, to the point that I decided to completely abandon the topic and refuse to nominate it for DYK. I discovered India-related sources injecting various forms of right-wing disinformation into this topic coverage, and it freaked me out to such an extent that I took the entire article off of my watchlist. I would recommend someone look carefully at The Times of India coverage and fact check it just to be sure. There's some very strange funny business going on. Viriditas (talk) 23:34, 8 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Launchballer, all wikilinks and hooks have been updated to account for the article page move. I'm not going to comment on the reliability of Business Insider, The Daily Beast, Newsweek, or The Times of India. TarnishedPathtalk 12:03, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
- Thank you. This is long enough and new enough and the QPQ is complete. As the title of this article uses the word "salute" instead of "gesture" this should probably be replaced in all hooks; I remain in favour of ALT1a, however ALT5 checks out and I would be willing to approve it. That said, there are a few claims cited to Business Insider, The Daily Beast, Newsweek, and The Times of India - what makes them reliable? Also, I think the "hung upside down" sentence could take a rewording per WP:CLOP.--Launchballer 11:18, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Launchballer the edit warring has now stopped due to EX protection being placed on the page after I requested it. TarnishedPathtalk 10:19, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Surtsicna: I was just about to review this, however WP:DYKCOMPLETE demands that articles be free from "unresolved edit-warring" and this very clearly isn't. When this stabilises, ping me and I will review this.--Launchballer 09:57, 26 February 2025 (UTC)
Looks good to me.--Launchballer 11:18, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Launchballer Alt5? TarnishedPathtalk 11:30, 14 March 2025 (UTC)