Template:Did you know nominations/Baldwin IV of Jerusalem

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 14:50, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

Baldwin IV of Jerusalem

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Baldwin toppling an enemy in battle

... that King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem (pictured) rode and fought using only one hand as a disabled teenager and went into battle in a litter slung between horses after becoming blind and immobile at 22?
- ALT0a: ... that King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem (pictured) rode and fought using only one hand as a disabled teenager?
- ALT0b: ... that King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem (pictured) went into battle in a litter slung between horses after becoming blind and immobile at 22?
  - ALT0c: ... that King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem (pictured) fought one-handed as a disabled teenager and at 22 went into battle blind and immobile in a litter slung between horses?

Source: "When finally he had to be carried into battle in a litter slung between two horses, unable even to see what was occurring around him, as happened when he went to the relief of Kerak in 1183 and again in 1184, only sheer willpower can have enabled him to stay the course." (Hamilton 2000, p. 241)

ALT1: ... that King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem (pictured) was diagnosed with leprosy as a teenager but remained determined, learned to ride and fight using one hand, and still went into battle after going blind and immobile? Source:
"Baldwin, who was effectively one-handed, needed to learn special skills if he intended to fight, because he would have to control his mount in battle with his knees alone. The training he received was clearly first-rate because he remained an excellent rider until he became too ill to mount." (Hamilton 2000, p. 28)
- ALT1a: ... that King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem (pictured) fought one-handed after being diagnosed with leprosy and still went into battle after going blind?
  - ALT1b: ... that teenage King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem (pictured) remained determined in the face of leprosy, learned to ride and fight using one hand, and still went into battle after becoming blind and immobile?
ALT2: ... that at a time when lepers were shunned, King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem (pictured) insired loyalty in his subjects even after becoming disfigured, blind, and immobile? Source:
"Nobody refused to serve Baldwin IV, who was the anointed king, and despite the divisions among the baronage, unity was preserved as long as he lived ... Baldwin’s subjects accepted his illness and did not fear it, even though leprosy was then thought to be highly contagious, which is why lepers were normally segregated." (Hamilton 2000, p. 241)
ALT3: ... that the disabled King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem (pictured) had himself carried in a litter to save his little sister from a siege? Source:
"For that reason he could not responsibly be left in charge of the army sent to the relief of Kerak. Yet the fortress was in urgent need of help and was vital to the security of the kingdom. It was also important that the king’s sister and her guests should not fall into the hands of Saladin." (Hamilton 2000, p. 194)
Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Lizzie the Elephant
Comment: For me (and I believe for Reverosie), this is one of the most fascinating historical figures. His story is widely known through Edward Norton's popular portrayal in Kingdom of Heaven, but the real Baldwin was even more inspiring than that.

Improved to Good Article status by Reverosie (talk) and Surtsicna (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 231 past nominations.

Surtsicna (talk) 20:09, 5 July 2025 (UTC).

First of all, forgive me if I'm doing this wrong; I've never worked with DYK before! I wholeheartedly agree that King Baldwin IV is an incredibly inspiring figure who is more than worthy of being on Wikipedia's homepage (if the following leads do not work, might I suggest one about Montgisard?). 🌷Reverosie🌷^★talk★ 21:42, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

Of course, Reverosie. All hook proposals are welcome. Surtsicna (talk) 21:56, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

Depending on which hook ends up chosen, this image is also worth considering. It is of an exceptionally good quality and captures a poignant moment described by Baldwin's tutor himself. Surtsicna (talk) 22:01, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

General eligibility:
New enough:
Long enough:
Other problems:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:
Other problems: - ?

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article looks long enough and is super well sourced. It was nominated within a week of reaching GA. The first pic is free, in the article and kind of cute in a way. The nominator has no previous DYKs so qpq not needed but the co-nominator provided one anyway (thanks!). I think that ALT0 and ALT1 are excellent hooks but could you make them a little shorter @Reverosie and Surtsicna:? They're a bit wordy even though the information is super interesting. ALT2 is also good but it would help to add a little more information specifically about the shunning of lepers to the article. ALT3 is kind of confusing to readers who haven't seen the article, and I think it's the least interesting of the three. BuySomeApples (talk) 22:16, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

Thank you so much!! I'll probably leave this to Surtsicna thanks to my inexperience, but I'd be more than happy to help! 🌷Reverosie🌷^★talk★ 22:17, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for such a quick review, BuySomeApples. I agree with you that ALT3 is the least interesting (but only because the competition is fierce). I am not sure how to shorten ALT0 or ALT1 without reducing their vividness. Drop "of Jerusalem"? But then I fear those who know about Baldwin from the film would not recognize the name. As for ALT2, the leprosy stigma is explained in the article: lepers could not marry, they were considered lecherous, and they were forced to live segregated from the society. Surtsicna (talk) 22:35, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

@Surtsicna: What do you think of ALT0a, ALT0b and ALT1a? BuySomeApples (talk) 01:03, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

I am afraid that much of the bittersweet poignancy is chipped away, BuySomeApples, especially in the reduction of ALT1 to ALT1a. I do not think that ALT0 (187 characters) and ALT1 are too long, but I proposed ALT0c which keeps all the information at a reduced length (154 characters). Surtsicna (talk) 09:12, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

I have managed to shave 11 characters off ALT1 without sacrificing any value: please see ALT1b. I think it is my favorite. Surtsicna (talk) 12:46, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

I see what you mean @Surtsicna: and I really like ALT1b. Approving ALT0 and its derivatives, ALT1 and its derivatives, and ALT2. Also, I should mention that I made very minor tweaks to the article but nothing that should disqualify me from reviewing. BuySomeApples (talk) 05:34, 8 July 2025 (UTC)