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My revision altering the introduction of the article from calling this war "the Great War" to "the War to End all Wars" has been reverted.
However, I think the title of "War to End all Wars" is a much more appropriate description of this war than "the Great War", because the first was more widely used at the time. I think we should replace the current title with this. DementiaGaming (talk) 21:41, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The term "war to end all wars" is discussed in the article. The wording of the lead resulted from extensive discussion and consensus here on the Talk page. Unless a new consensus emerges, the current version will stand. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 22:48, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are ignoring the fact that this term was the most popular way to describe the war during the time. It was a global war that people struggled to understand so they dubbed it the war to end all wars, and the term has since become synonymous with WWI. Besides, this term has its own article and the "Great War" term does not. DementiaGaming (talk) 17:11, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh my, this again with the first sentence and the different names? We should just have a footnote with all of the big alternative names. Coulomb1 (talk) 17:45, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding from MOS:CLUTTER and other articles is ALL alternative names should be included in the FN, so I've made that change.
Having been involved previously in the discussion on Lead and nomenclature, I'd also like to point out the term "Great War" was used ONLY by Anglophone historians at the time (for Germans, "Great War" means 30 Years War), and the last time I could find the term being used was in a 1960s US High School text book. So that should come out. Robinvp11 (talk) 12:59, 23 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding Aemilius Adolphin's recent revert of my edit in Special:Diff/1268658168, I think my addition is an improvement because the current lead chronology seems to skip over the period between the First Battle of the Marne in 1914 and the U.S. entry into the war in 1917. WWI as a war of attrition with millions of casualties and minimal territorial gains is a defining feature and how the conflict is remembered, and needs to be stated because simply mentioning trench warfare is insufficient. Also, any brief summary of WWI should include the names Verdun, the Somme, and Passchendaele, just as our lead on WWII includes the names Midway, Stalingrad, and Normandy. — Goszei (talk) 23:06, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think the lead is fine as it is. It already states that the western front settled into a static line of trenches and that there were millions of casualties. If there is a consensus that we should state the names of some of the major battles of the western front it needs to be done in a way that flows naturally. Your sentence was awkward and ungrammatical. But let's see what others think. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 23:21, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What is your opinion on adding a more simple statement, such as Major battles, including at Verdun, the Somme, and Passchendaele, failed to break the stalemate in the west.? Without stating this, it could easily be read as the two sides simply taking no action for years in the west, instead of the truth of both sides launching (ultimately ineffective) offensives which set off major battles. — Goszei (talk) 10:43, 22 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
also could somebody please explain me the difference between the Triple Entente and the Allies? (from what I see, the Triple Entente was the starting alliance and eventually developed into the Allies; a clarification would be helpful regarding this.) WorldDiagram837 (talk) 14:23, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Triple Entente" refers to the pre-1914 informal alliance between Britain, France and Russia.
I think the IP wants it made clearer that Russia lost its war, which it did. The current ibx set up is ambiguous, with Russia in the list of victor states as an ally. The footnote could also be better worded. It currently implies that the war was lost because of the bolsheviks not the Russian military. BL being nullified doesn't change the fact that Russia lost or that Russia lost territory that was not returned. However, I cannot think of how better to edit the ibx, except possibly monor re-wording of the footnote. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 10:00, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I agree. As I said, I can't think of how better to explain it all in the ibx where simplicity and brevity is required. If Russia was also put in the section of losing states as well as in the section of winning states there will be an inevitable backlash. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 19:51, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Roger 8 Roger That's exactly what I meant. The fact sheet assumes that Russia won the First World War, even though Russia had already lost the war and left with the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. It would be sufficient if the fact sheet box included the words "(until 1918, lost the war and the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was signed)" in parentheses, along with the existing source reference. 2003:EC:739:D200:36E:BBD3:9283:ED8 (talk) 21:16, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Even saying "Russia lost the war" is an over simplification of events. The infobox is a supplement to the lead and prose in the lead is the place to deal with nuance and detail. Cinderella157 (talk) 22:21, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What about putting in (until 1917). This would be in line with what is used for Italy and the USA below it, who also did not fight for the entire period. That would be clearer and more accurate. Further clarification can stay in the footnote. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 23:26, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
All these little tweaks are trying to add detail to what is in essence a broad brush tool - like taking a fine line art brush to a Rolf Harris on stage painting painted with a four-inch house brush. But I can live with that suggestion, though we probably don't need the note as well, given that the same detail is covered in the lead. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:47, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If this is the case, why are we changing the established consensus?
Wars end in treaties; that matters, because there are numerous examples of countries "winning" militarily, then "losing" the peace.
My solution is to remove "Allied victory" and replace it with "Treaty of Versailles". That's more accurate and avoids discussions like this. Robinvp11 (talk) 09:18, 26 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This statement flies in the face of Wikipedia's own statistics which show 60% of users ONLY read the Lead. This isn't school, we can't "expect" people to do anything, and suggesting we should simply ignore this reality seems odd.
Wikipedia articles are designed specifically to have a Lead which summaries the article for the 60% of users who only need a quick overview, with the detail in the body for those who do. I assume you made this comment in haste, because it seems a bit childish.
Also, I know this isn't the right place but I don't want to start a new topic - with regard to your recent edit summary, I wrote the section on the Arms Race, so I know exactly what it says, and its why I raised this point. Robinvp11 (talk) 12:31, 26 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry, I'm not going to pursue this but it is possible I might not be totally wrong, since neither the article nor the linked Causes of WWI support these blanket statements. Robinvp11 (talk) 12:40, 26 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Let me quote a sentence from the Italian front section:
"Italy joined the Triple Entente and, on 23 May, declared war on Austria-Hungary, followed by Germany fifteen months later."
This language must be confusing for you, because it certainly is for me. :/ GotAQuestionForYa (talk) 09:06, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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