Talk:Muhammad of Ghor

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Muhammad of Ghor was nominated as a History good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (December 23, 2023, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

Biography: Military / Royalty and Nobility

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Iran

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Afghanistan

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Military history of Ray, Iran was copied or moved into Mu'izz al-Din with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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List of referenced content deleted from this article

User 117.207.185.74 deletes an entire section containing cited content on Assisination ,for unexplained reasons

References

Lead

Instead of back and forth reverts, it's better to discuss on talk page, you are removing a lead which stands for over two years now and was written after multiple discussion in the past where I was involved as well.

Obviously, lead is summary of article body but this long standing lead version not only covers every detail of Muhammad rule in brief but also in more nuanced manner as an average reader don't often go beyond lead it is much better to have a lead which give a decent idea about the subject matter and not just a vague introduction like your version, also I have been editing this article for last four years and made significant improvements to it over the years. Re Pa©ker&Tra©ker (♀) 00:21, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It does not come accross as brief nor concise, and holds way more information than is necesary for a lead. I am a normal reader in regards to Muhammed Ghori besides his assassination aspect and the information on there is huge most of which can be shortened down even further even more concisely. Looking at other wikis for example John F Kennedy's, that would be a good example of a lead which holds all information in a very concise format.

I am willing to make a compromise and keep most of the information similar to how it is currently however it needs to be shortened down even further as there is too much unecessary extra information not relevent for a lead section for example:

'Afterwards, Muhammad took his army by the way of lower Sindh, endeavouring to penetrate into present-day Gujarat through the Thar Desert.'

'This setback forced him to change his route for future inroads into the Indian Plains.'

'Muhammad returned to Khurasan. A year later he set off with a vast army of mounted archers into the Gangetic Plain and secured a decisive victory in the return engagement on the same battleground.'

' He limited his presence in India thereafter, deputising the political and military operations in the region to a handful of elite slave commanders who raided local Indian kingdoms and extended the Ghurid influence as far east as the Ganges delta in Bengal and regions to the north in Bihar.''

'and ordered the construction of a bridge over the Oxus River to launch a full-scale invasion of Transoxiana in order to avenge his defeat at Andkhud.'

most of these examples can either be removed or shortened down drastically. The lead isnt as concise as can be Zenithxxx (talk) 13:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't agree with your edits in the assassination section either at first place where you are simply citing primiary sources from citation 101-103, despite the fact that earlier version had secondary scholarly sources which itself are concluded from primiary sources.

As far as lead is concerned, I don't still get the reason how there are needless details in it compared to your version which is completely vague, we are not including every minute details neither have gone into details in any parts but even in lead of an article of decent quality it is important to have the details in a more nuanced manner (like at Alauddin Khalji, Mughal Empire, Timur, Mogol Empire etc) which holds good value to a normal reader who generally don't go beyond lead. Re Pa©ker&Tra©ker (♀) 01:18, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Kansas Bear, HistoryofIran, Noorullah21, and पाटलिपुत्र: Your thoughts ? Re Pa©ker&Tra©ker (♀) 00:29, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Personally I agree with the current status of the page ([1]).

But a note, @Re Packer&Tracker, try to be weary with the comments like "also I have been editing this article for last four years and made significant improvements to it over the years." It slightly comes off as WP:OWN. -- Unless I'm misinterpreting this? xD, sorry.

Happy editing! Noorullah (talk) 01:32, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I meant by it that since I have been familiar with this article for a while now, it requires a hard earned consensus to change a significant part of lead or altering it to make a vague lead which is of hardly any purpose to an average reader as our current version also is brief summary of the article but in more articulate manner, nothing about owning it. Cheers Re Pa©ker&Tra©ker (♀) 03:28, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]