Talk:Kajaaninjoki

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On 14 July 2025, it was proposed that this article be moved from Kajaani (river) to Kajaaninjoki. The result of the discussion was moved.

Untitled

I merged the article Kajaaninjoki into this article, but this means no position taking in the question which of these two (or some other name) should be the name of article, because I only merged the newer and shorter of the two duplicates to the older and more comprehensive. If needed, the article can later be moved to more appropriate name or be kept with this name according to what the community will decide.Urjanhai (talk) 14:10, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 July 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Moved as an uncontested request with minimal participation. If there is any objection within a reasonable time frame, please ask me to reopen the discussion; if I am not available, please ask at the technical requests page. Technical requests have been submitted.(non-admin closure) Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 10:30, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

– The river is not known as "Kajaani" in Finnish or Swedish. In English, there is no single established name, but "Kajaani River" and "Kajaaninjoki River" are used. "Kajaani River" is the WP:CONCISE choice and also understandable in English. I do not know if there is a conventional name form in WP for Finnish rivers.

Article history: The article was originally created as Kajaani river, was moved to Kajaani River and then to Kajaani (river). There was a duplicate article at Kajaaninjoki, which has been merged here. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 16:55, 14 July 2025 (UTC) — Updated: Jähmefyysikko (talk) 08:41, 15 July 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPath^talk 09:22, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The majority of articles at List of rivers of Finland use the Finnish name but there are exceptions where (river) is used for disambiguation. Ngram shows no usage for any of the names in its corpus; the few book examples I looked at for Kajaani appear to refer to the town, Kajaani. A regular Google search for Kajaani River returns mixed results but with a little more support for River Kajaaninjoki‍[1][2][3][4] than Kajaani River. The Article titles policy under WP:UE says to follow the conventions of the local language or in general, and specifically: For lesser known geographical objects or structures with few reliable English sources, follow the translation convention, if any, used for well known objects or structures of the same type. Absent a strong translation convention for Finnish rivers on WP and substantial coverage in English-langauge sources, Kajaaninjoki may be best. I agree that Kajaani River is preferable to the current title, as it uses natural disambiguation. Capitalizing River as part of the name is appropriate if this version is chosen. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 18:22, 14 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Kajaaninjoki is fine by me, and using the Finnish name indeed seems to be the consistent choice. Most of the rivers in Category:Rivers of Finland that use a disambiguator seem to have been moved from X River to X (river) by @Bermicourt, citing "consistency" in the edit summary. Of these, at least Vantaa (river), Muonio (river) and few others also sound incorrect to me and could be naturally disambiguated as Vantaanjoki and Muonionjoki like here (the municipalities are the primary meaning of these names and the rivers are always explicitly disambiguated from them; I doubt the form "the Vantaa" is used much, as it sounds very grandiose for a minor river). Jähmefyysikko (talk) 04:41, 15 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
RM updated. I've added other rivers with the same format from Category:Rivers of Finland to this RM and changed the suggested target of Kajaani (river) from Kajaani River to Kajaaninjoki. The incoming links to those pages also indicate that these names are not typically used by themselves, but are disambiguated from the settlements by adding the word river (joki) in some way (I recommend User:PrimeHunter/Source links.js for studying the incoming links). The format "the Vantaa" seems very rare. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 08:41, 15 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Jähmefyysikko: Please specify a new target name for Eurajoki. Celia Homeford (talk) 11:11, 16 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the notice, I changed it to Eurajoki (river). This is a common format in Category:Rivers of Finland, especially if this RM finds support. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 11:29, 16 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Jähmefyysikko please double check; this should be Eurajoki in line with the others, right? This is one that actually has most support per Ngram although, again, I don't think the argument for most of these is really "common name". --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 18:32, 16 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The municipality is the primary topic for Eurajoki (most of the hits in Ngram refer to it), so we need to disambiguate (was this the question?) Just in case, here are some justifications for the title Eurajoki (river):
There is no river called Eura in the native languages so Eura (river) would be misleading.

Eura River cannot be considered an established English name, and there is no convention for "translating" Finnish rivers [Name]joki as [Name] River. Of the current titles, Aurajoki is the only exception; it is currently at Aura River (Finland), but that's not well justified.

Kalajoki (river), Pyhäjoki (river), Lemmenjoki (river) and Jänhijoki (river) establish a convention.

Eurajoki is the name one finds in Google/Bing Maps with English interface.

Jähmefyysikko (talk) 19:55, 16 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Got it, thanks! --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 20:49, 16 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support all per WP:UE, CONCISE, WP:NATDIS, and consistency with other Finnish rivers, and as elaborated in my earlier comment and follow-up from Jähmefyysikko. I looked at the other Ngrams[5][6][7][8][9] and except for Vantaa, the -joki form is actually the most common, but overall usage is mixed and sources are quite limited and do not point to a true "common name" in English. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 20:55, 15 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Finland and WikiProject Rivers have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPath^talk 09:22, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.