Talk:Hyunjin

Requested move 18 July 2025

• Hyunjin → Hyunjin (rapper)
• Kim Hyunjin → Hyunjin (singer)

– Both individuals are consistently referred to in reliable secondary sources by the mononym "Hyunjin" (Korean: 현진), not their full names.[1][2][3][4][5][6]. While both could be described as singers in general and perform vocals (as is typical for K-pop idols), the former (Stray Kids member) is primarily notable as a rapper, as reflected by the order of roles in the article lead and consistent with coverage in reliable sources, while the latter (Loona/Loossemble member) is primarily notable as a singer, providing clear grounds for disambiguation per WP:SINGERDAB and MOS:ROLEBIO. While ROLEBIO does not strictly dictate article titles, it helps identify the role for which each subject is best known. Other disambiguation options are unsuitable: "(singer, born 2000)" isn't applicable since both were born in 2000, and "(entertainer)" is discouraged per SINGERDAB, which recommends that disambiguator only "if the person is also well-known in other non-musical entertainment fields", both individuals are primarily known for musical performance and idol activities, not broader entertainment roles. Likewise, a hyphenated or full-name version for the latter (Loona/Loossemble member) is also not appropriate. A WP:BEFORE search for "Kim Hyun-jin" in Google, Bing, Naver, and Daum returns Kim Hyun-jin (the actor), rather than the Loona/Loossemble member. A search for "Kim Hyunjin" returns results referring to the Loona/Loossemble member as simply "Hyunjin", rather than under her full name. If the former (Stray Kids member) is determined to be the primary topic, that's acceptable and reasonable. However, the latter (Loona/Loossemble member) should not remain at Kim Hyunjin, which is an unnatural, obscure, and unused form, contrary to WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NATURALDAB. Her article should be moved to Hyunjin (singer), the most accurate and policy-compliant title. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:34, 18 July 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPath^talk 13:08, 25 July 2025 (UTC) — Relisting.  ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 13:15, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

Oppose on both points.

First, the choice of disambiguation: "Hyunjin, the singer, born in South Korea in 2000" could apply to both of the male and female musicians known mononamously as Hyunjin. A quick Google News search for "Hyunjin singer" shows several reliable sources describing to the Stray Kids member as a "singer", including the BBC, NME, WWD, Straits Times. "Singer" is not a suitable form of disambiguatior to differentiate these two articles.

Second, the proposal to move the male musician away from the primary topic for the mononym "Hyunjin". This year, the singer has received an average monthly readership of 32000 pageviews. Because the female singer's article was just created, we don't have any history to compare, and I don't have a crystal ball. However, if we can broaden the scope a bit and infer from related subjects, the male musician is a popular member of one of the biggest currently active K-pop groups in the world. Conversely, all of the current members of the female singer's groups, as well as the group's articles themselves, combined, barely surpass the monthly readership of the male singer. [7].

Scientific? No, but it points out that this likely isn't a situation where a newly created article could usurp disrupt the article currently at the root, or become a WP:NOPRIMARY situation.

Proposing 1 of 2 things:
Option 1:

• Move Kim Hyunjin to Kim Hyun-jin (singer)
  • Disambiguates from Kim Hyun-jin (the actor), but probably not ideal because the subject isn't known as her full name.

Option 2:

• Move Kim Hyunjin to Hyunjin (female singer)
  • Given the lack of other suitable disambiguators (we can't use occupation, we can't use year of birth, we can't use country), differentiating the two by sex/gender would seem to be a fairly obvious way to differentiate between the two Hyunjin singers that wouldn't rely on the reader knowing much more than the basics to figure out who the article is about.

RachelTensions (talk) 15:46, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

As I noted in my initial rationale, if the former (Stray Kids member) is determined to be the primary topic, that's acceptable and reasonable, meaning it's fine to have Hyunjin staying at Hyunjin, I simply included it to ensure a explicit consensus on WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.

Regarding your Option 1, as I already stated, a hyphenated or full-name version for the latter (Loona/Loossemble member) is also not appropriate. A WP:BEFORE search for "Kim Hyun-jin" in Google, Bing, Naver, and Daum returns Kim Hyun-jin (the actor), rather than the Loona/Loossemble member, and as you noted, the subject isn't known as her full name, so this option doesn't resolve the issue.

For your option 2, this form of disambiguation is not supported by any official naming convention or policy, so this is off the table.

With the said, not moving Hyunjin to Hyunjin (rapper) because it's the PRIMARYTOPIC, should not hinder moving the Loona/Loossemble member's article to Hyunjin (singer). The key issue here is primary notability: Stray Kids' Hyunjin is primarily known as a rapper (with "singer" as a secondary role), which is reflected in both reliable sources and the article lead. Just because a couple of sources refer to him as a "singer" does not outweigh the number of sources referring to him as a "rapper". In contrast, the Loona member is primarily notable as a singer. Therefore, moving her article to Hyunjin (singer) is both policy-compliant and the most natural disambiguation, regardless of the Stray Kids member's status as PRIMARYTOPIC. Not moving Hyunjin (Stray Kids) to Hyunjin (rapper) due to PRIMARYTOPIC should not be used as a reason to prevent accurate and policy-based disambiguation for the Loona member.

Alternatively, the standard solution for these cases is to use a hatnote on Hyunjin pointing readers to Hyunjin (singer), and a hatnote on Hyunjin (singer) pointing readers to Hyunjin. This ensures readers can easily find the Loona/Loossemble member's article or the Stray Kids member's article, even with the Stray Kids member at the primary topic, and is consistent with common Wikipedia practice, while ensuring the base title uses the common name. Additionally, I don't believe there is a realistic risk of readers confusing the two articles via search. Wikipedia search engines display photos and other context in their results, and external search engines display photos, group names, and other context in their results, so users can easily distinguish between the Stray Kids member and the Loona/Loossemble member.

This is similar to how Wikipedia handles topics like "BlackBerry" (the brand) and "Blackberry" (the fruit), as covered in WP:NCCAPS. When readers search for one but are looking for the other, hatnotes are used to guide them appropriately, and no one suggests changing the base title away from the common name just to avoid the rare chance of confusion. In both cases, search interfaces and hatnotes ensure users end up where they intend.

Likewise, with Hyunjin and Hyunjin (singer), hatnotes and search features (which display photos and group names) are sufficient to navigate any confusion.

I hope we can focus on solutions that align with both policy and common naming practice. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:42, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

• Support moving both pages from their current titles but not the currently proposed names. They are both singers, so the disambiguation needs to be more specific per WP:NCPDAB. For the first article, Hyunjin should redirect to Hyun-jin, the article about the name Hyun-jin. Hyun-jin is a common Korean name, and Hyunjin from Stray Kids is not on the level of Elvis or Madonna, where he is so ubiquitous that he is the primary topic over the other individuals with the same name. Hyunjin from Stray Kids should be moved to Hyunjin (Stray Kids singer), in a similar fashion to how the singer Ian Watkins is disambiguated from another singer, Ian H. Watkins, as Ian Watkins (Lostprophets singer). For the second article, the removal of a hyphen is not enough to disambiguate between the singer and the actor, Kim Hyun-jin. I would support option 1 of the suggestion by RachelTensions to move her to Kim Hyun-jin (singer) to distinguish her from the more prominent actor.⁂CountHacker (talk) 23:45, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

  For what it's worth, it's fairly established practice among Korean names that the hyphen is enough disambiguation between the name articles and a notable figure that is known mononamously as the non-hyphenated form (WP:SMALLDIFFERENCES), with a hatnote directing to the name article.

  Examples I can think of off the top of my head are Seungmin and Seung-min, Soyeon and So-yeon, Jisoo and Ji-soo, Chaeyoung and Chae-young, Taeyeon and Tae-yeon, Taemin and Tae-min, Jongho and Jong-ho, Hyuna and Hyun-a, among others. RachelTensions (talk) 01:25, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

  WP:SMALLDIFFERENCES also states that "a well-known concept may still be the primary topic for a variant or incorrect spelling, even if a much less well-known subject uses that spelling". Hyunjin and Hyun-jin or even Hyeonjin are just variants of the same name. Is Hyunjin from Strays Kids so ubiquitous to be more prominent than the name? Simply being a singer with a monomym does not make them the primary topic. Most singers with monomyms usually require disambiguation: such as Khalid (American singer), Drake (musician), Zayn Malik or Jade Thirlwall, over Khalid, Drake, Zayn or Jade. It's only the most famous ones such as Elvis or Madonna that are primary topics over a name list or a disambiguation page. I do acknowledge that a practice to distinguish with hyphens might exist but it's just bad practice and isn't clear enough to disambiguate, in my opinion. It also used to be common practice for Korean articles to place Romanization rules over the actual common names of articles, which resulted in article titles such as Gwon and Gim Yu-sin for a bit.⁂CountHacker (talk) 02:37, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

• Support. There's disagreement on where the pages should be moved to. Both these options are acceptable to me, and in both Hyunjin should redirect to Hyun-jin:

Option 1:

• Move Hyunjin to Hyunjin (rapper), move Kim Hyunjin to Hyunjin (singer)

Option 2:

• Move Hyunjin to Hyunjin (Stray Kids singer), move Kim Hyunjin to Hyunjin (Loona singer), create and redirect Hyunjin (Loossemble singer) to Hyunjin (Loona singer) if found necessary

For option 1, I agree the Stray Kids member is known as a rapper predominately and having a hatnote to direct to the other is sufficient. For option 2, I believe Kim Hyunjin is still primarily known for being a member of Loona over being a member of Loossemble. In recent media involving her, both groups are consistently mentioned. — Cactoideae♫♪ (talk) 00:06, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

• Move Hyunjin → Hyunjin (Stray Kids singer) and Kim Hyunjin → Hyunjin (Loona singer). Both singers. Both known mononymously. Both South Korean. Both born in 2000. This is really our only option. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:37, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Pop music, WikiProject Musicians, and WikiProject Korea have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPath^talk 13:07, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

Relisting comment: While most believe they should be moved, there is not yet agreement whether both should be called "singer". I should note that from a cursory glance, "rapper" appears the more common disambiguation. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 13:15, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

• Support per discussion. My second choice would be move Hyunjin → Hyunjin (singer, born March 2000) and Kim Hyunjin → Hyunjin (singer, born November 2000). I suggest not to include the current group's name, because as time passes, both will be no longer be members of their respective groups. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 08:56, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

  Why not Hyunjin (male singer) and Hyunjin (female singer)? A reader is much more likely to be able to identify which article they're looking for based off of that information, versus expecting a reader to already know that one was born in March and the other in November.

  See WP:NCPDAB: "Years of birth and death are not normally used as disambiguators, as readers are more likely to be seeking this information than to already know it." In this case, we're expecting the reader to already know not only the year of birth, but also the month. RachelTensions (talk) 15:17, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

• Support disambiguating both. I oppose using "rapper" and "singer" as disambiguators as in K-pop these lines are very blurred so I don't think it really solves anything. My preference would be Hyunjin (Loona singer) and Hyunjin (Stray Kids singer) in the lines of Roger Taylor (Queen drummer) and Roger Taylor (Duran Duran drummer). I don't like using female and male as disambiguators as I don't think there is any precedence for it; I think readers would know them by their groups first and foremost. orangesclub 🍊 23:28, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

Lead Artist for songs by Stray Kids

I'm relatively new to editing Wikipedia and wanted insight on this situation. Looking at other (mostly K-pop) pages, my understanding was sub-unit songs credited to a group should not be included in the lead artist section of any members on the song (Ex: All the Twice members). In the case of solo songs, I've seen them listed under "Other charted songs" with a footnote (Ex: RM_discography#Other_charted_songs), though in this case the section is "Singles" (as on RM's discography) instead of "Songs" (as on this article).

I was wondering if there was policy/guides/consensus for this. I searched under some of the music WikiProjects but couldn't find anything. Concluded from what I've seen, my understanding is first to change the "Songs" section to "Singles. Then, any sub-unit Stray Kids songs should be removed from this page and any solo songs should be moved to an "Other charted songs" section, given that they charted. Otherwise, they should be removed entirely. If this conclusion is correct, I can edit the article as such. Cactoideae (talk) 03:50, 19 July 2025 (UTC)