Talk:Animal stereotypes of Palestinians in Israeli discourse

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Possible rename?

The article discusses Palestinians being labelled as bacteria and cancer. These are obviously not animals and thus out of scope for the current article title. Shall we rename the article to Non-human descriptions of Palestinians in Israeli discourse? starship .paint (RUN) 02:33, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dehumanisation of Palestinians in Israeli discourse? TarnishedPath^talk 10:01, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All those objections can be met by simply retitling:Dehumanizing and animal stereotypes of Palestinians in Israeli discourse. Bacteria and viral agents belong to the biological order. The emphasis is on animal stereotypes, but this dehumanization extends to the lowest biological order, and even extends to considering them inert material. 'Dehumanization' alone is far too broad a category, since that topic is vast and would destabilize, if followed through on, the essential focus of this article. Actually, I don't think we need a title change. The part you worry about is attached at the end more or less as an afternote.Nishidani (talk) 13:17, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Removing the Begin quote purportedly describing Palestinians as beasts

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What I think should be changed
−
~~According~~ to ~~Amnon~~ ~~Kapeliouk,~~ in a ~~1982~~ ~~address~~ to ~~the~~ ~~Knesset~~ in ~~justifying~~ ~~the~~ ~~Israeli~~ ~~invasion~~ of ~~Lebanon,~~ ~~Menachem~~ ~~Begin~~ ~~likened~~ ~~Palestinians~~ to ~~"two~~-~~footed~~ ~~beasts~~."
+
:
Why it should be changed: This supposed quote by Begin has been widely debunked. Begin never said it. What he actually said was:

"I want to announce in the ears of all nations: The children of Israel will happily go to school and joyfully return home, just like the children in Washington, in Moscow, and in Peking, in Paris and in Rome, in Oslo, in Stockholm and in Copenhagen. The fate of one and a half million Jewish children was different from the fate of all the children of the world in all generations. Not anymore. We shall protect our children. If the hand of a two-legged animal shall be raised against them, that hand shall be cut off and our children will grow up happily in their parent’s homes." [Hebrew source below has text of speech in Hebrew]

Begin was discussing terrorists targeting Jewish children, not Palestinians. Unless you include all Palestinians under that umbrella, it is false to say Begin was describing all Palestinians. The incorrect quote often circulates in antisemitic circles as proof Begin/Israelis/Zionists/Jews hate Palestinians. Continuing to share it contributes to the rise in antisemitism.

References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

^[1] ^[2] ^[3] ^[4] ^[5] SK6074 (talk) 00:51, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Lax, Chaim (30 June 2022). "Seven Notorious Fake Quotes and Misquotes About Israel". The Algemeiner. Retrieved 20 August 2024.
^ "הישיבה התשעים–וחמש של הכנסת העשירית - יום שלישי, י"ז בסיוון התשמ"ב 8 ביוני 1982 - הצעת סיעת החזית הדמוקרטית לשלום ולשוויון להביע אי–אמון לממשלה נוכח החלטתה לפתוח במלחמה ולפלוש ללבנון". מאגר כתבי מנחם בגין - מרכז מורשת בגין (in Hebrew). Retrieved 20 August 2024.
^ Hollander, Ricki. "Exposing False Zionist Quotes II (Quote Busters II)". CAMERA. Retrieved 20 August 2024.
^ Levick, Adam (2 July 2014). "Telling Lies about Israel: Robert Fisk cites misleading Begin quote about 'two-legged beasts'". CAMERA UK. Retrieved 20 August 2024.
^ Medad, Y (27 May 2009). "Correcting A Misquotation Reputedly By Menachem Begin". Begin Center Diary. Retrieved 20 August 2024.

(a)All of your sources are not RS (b) attribution is given (c) the source was Amnon Kapeliouk (d) who was present when Begin is reported as making that remark and (e)Kapeliouk was a linguist and journalist (f) there is no record I know of of his inventing stuff (g) we provide attribution in order to distinguish the truth (unknown) from a reliably sourced report. Nishidani (talk) 14:29, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Would you please explain why CAMERA, the Algemeiner, and the text of the discussion aren't considered reliable sources? SK6074 (talk) 21:47, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. An explanatory footnote immediately follows the sentence, giving more context and stating that This has been contested as not referring to Palestinians but to terrorists generally. Removing the sentence entirely would not be an uncontroversial change. jlwoodwa (talk) 22:41, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add mention that gallant referred to Gazans as "human animals"

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For some reason I've gotten repeated requests to state this request in this fashion: change the lack of the existence of a section on gallant referring to the Palestinians in Gaza as "Human animals" by saying "“Everything is closed... We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.”' to an additional paragraph in the "Palestinians as simply animals" section to include: "Yoav Gallant referred to Palestinian Gazans as 'Human animals' by saying “Everything is closed... We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.” (referring to him stating that his strategy would be to enact a complete blockade of all food water and electricity from all of Gaza targeting all Gazans not any one particular group or any combination of multiple groups but the entire population." Using https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3e9q4nylwjo as a source. Fanccr (talk) 03:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done Rainsage (talk) 02:31, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Derogatory" not equal to slur

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When this article starts with a slur, it makes plain the intention and tone is to literally denigrate and demean a people. Calling (sand) n* a derogatory name is not harsh enough for such a slur, and lets any reader skim past, thinking that's okay. 173.95.131.198 (talk) 12:23, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done Fair point. Done. Smallangryplanet (talk) 17:21, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

List class?

I don't know if an article like this should really be list class, I think it is better suited to be an actual article because it has a lot of prose and very little tabling/bullet listing Easternsahara (talk) 02:50, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Lax, Chaim (30 June 2022). "Seven Notorious Fake Quotes and Misquotes About Israel". The Algemeiner. Retrieved 20 August 2024.

[The_Ninety-Fifth_Session_of_the_Tenth_Knesset_-_Tuesday,_the_17th_of_Sivan,_8_June_1982-2] "הישיבה התשעים–וחמש של הכנסת העשירית - יום שלישי, י"ז בסיוון התשמ"ב 8 ביוני 1982 - הצעת סיעת החזית הדמוקרטית לשלום ולשוויון להביע אי–אמון לממשלה נוכח החלטתה לפתוח במלחמה ולפלוש ללבנון". מאגר כתבי מנחם בגין - מרכז מורשת בגין (in Hebrew). Retrieved 20 August 2024.

[3] Hollander, Ricki. "Exposing False Zionist Quotes II (Quote Busters II)". CAMERA. Retrieved 20 August 2024.

[4] Levick, Adam (2 July 2014). "Telling Lies about Israel: Robert Fisk cites misleading Begin quote about 'two-legged beasts'". CAMERA UK. Retrieved 20 August 2024.

[5] Medad, Y (27 May 2009). "Correcting A Misquotation Reputedly By Menachem Begin". Begin Center Diary. Retrieved 20 August 2024.

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