Talk:Abortion in Madagascar

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BorgQueen talk 13:46, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

( Comment or view )

( Article history links:

• Abortion in Africa
• Abortion in Senegal
• Abortion in Madagascar

)

• ... that in Africa, the only countries that have passed reproductive health laws without grounds for legal abortion are Senegal and Madagascar?

• Source: [1] Eleven Sub-Saharan countries have passed reproductive health laws, and nine of them specify grounds for legal abortion (the exceptions are Senegal and Madagascar).

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Upper Skagit Indian Tribe, Template:Did you know nominations/Mama (My Chemical Romance song), Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Neary's
• Comment: I proposed an individual hook at Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Abortion_in_Senegal, so cancel that one if this one is approved.

Moved to mainspace by Vigilantcosmicpenguin (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 9 past nominations.

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 17:12, 11 August 2024 (UTC).

• @Vigilantcosmicpenguin: The source specifies sub-Saharan Africa, so there could be theoretically countries in North Africa that have such laws which are not reflected and thus make the hook inadequate. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 18:22, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
  • Right, thanks for pointing that out. I could just tweak the hook to specify Sub-Saharan Africa; I think it's still reasonable to link that to the article.
  • ... that in Sub-Saharan Africa, the only countries that have passed reproductive health laws without grounds for legal abortion are Senegal and Madagascar?
  • The article already specifies this, so it still passes that requirement. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:19, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

@Vigilantcosmicpenguin: I'm planning on reviewing this when I'm not falling asleep, however I suspect that any hook saying that they haven't passed a reproductive health law yet could fall foul of WP:DYKDEFINITE as they could theoretically pass one at any minute. I think this should be futureproofed. Also, I'll be looking to run all three in one hook, so I have closed the individual nom.--Launchballer 23:57, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

@Vigilantcosmicpenguin: Please address the above.--Launchballer 08:21, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

• @Launchballer: Ope, I missed the first ping somehow. You bring up a good point. Maybe it could be changed to:
• ... that many African countries provide for legal abortion in their reproductive health laws, but such laws have been passed without grounds for legal abortion in Madagascar and in Senegal?
• The first half of the hook is cited in the same source as the second half. I have added a sentence to the article specifying this, so it is now cited inline. I think this hook is good, but if this hook doesn't work I could change it to three separate hooks. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 16:44, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I will review these in the morning.--Launchballer 19:06, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, this took me much longer than I expected. I kept having to step away from this to calm myself down. All three articles are long enough and new enough. All three QPQs done and Earwig checks out. The hook can be found in "Abortion in Africa", except it says "as of 2020", and I think the hook should attribute similarly. I knocked together several short paragraphs per MOS:PARA, however many adjacent sentences begin with "In 20XX", which violates WP:PROSELINE. This should probably be fixed.--Launchballer 20:56, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: I don't think the hook needs to attribute "As of 2020". The article has to qualify the statement that these are the only countries to do so as of 2020. The currently proposed hook simply says that the countries have done so at some point, which is definite. As for the proseline issues, I will definitely keep that in mind, and I'll get around to rephrasing, but since it's not part of the MOS it shouldn't disqualify a DYK. (And thanks for your edits to the articles. I definitely get the "having to step away from this" part, especially with these doozies of articles.) — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 01:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

(It's more the subject matter that wound me up than anything else.) I take your point regarding the hook. For what it's worth, I forgot to say that I can't see anything else that might cause this to deserve a maintenance template.--Launchballer 02:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: I have made some changes to address your concerns, especially on Abortion in Africa, which had a lot of "In year X" statements. I have kept the general structure of the articles the same, since I still want to mention when things happened and keep them in chronological order, especially with things like legal proceedings. I think the articles are better now. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 15:23, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Let's roll.--Launchballer 10:10, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Abortion in Madagascar/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Vigilantcosmicpenguin (talk · contribs) 03:48, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: Averageuntitleduser (talk · contribs) 18:11, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Howdy, I will review this. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 18:11, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Well-written

• 2 million ariary — could we get a Euro conversion after this, too?
  • I think not. The Wikipedia templates for currency conversions don't have Madagascar data, so I only included the conversion that was mentioned in the source. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
    • Ah you're right. And it's not a major issue so I will not stress it. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 17:03, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
• "diverse measures aimed at favoring the growth of the population in Imerina" — can this be attributed? It's unclear whether it's from the article or Gallieni.
  • Rephrased, is this better? — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
    • Tweaked a little. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 17:03, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
• The government believed that Madagascar had a high abortion rate because a lack of medical facilities caused women to fear abortion. — would this not correlate with a low abortion rate? At least, or particularly, regarding the fear among women.
  • Fixed. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
• Gallieni believed the ban would reduce deaths during childbirth. — specify "mother's deaths", or something like that.
  • Done. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
• In late 2007, multiple United Nations agencies suggested decriminalizing abortion. — globally? In Madagascar? Also, could we give a few words about what form these suggestions took?
  • The sources cited don't give any details about the details of the suggestions, or even what agencies were involved. (I suspect that such a statement from the UN would be fairly routine, so its details may not be noteworthy.) — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
    • That's OK then. Also, the sentence looks better. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 17:03, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
• The United States Agency for International Development (USAID) funded non-governmental organizations (NGOs) — suggest qualifying this with something like "has historically", or if possible, a specific beginning year. Of less priority, I would suggest moving this sentence and the following one to the beginning of the paragraph as I think it would segue more neatly into the discussion of the Mexico City policy.
  • Rephrased to say "At the time"; the source doesn't specify the beginning. In this context, it works better in the middle of the paragraph than the start. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
    • That works. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 17:03, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
• Not a comment, but oh dear... how is the Ministry of Health still a redlink?? On that note, thank you for drawing attention to our gaps in coverage with redlinks.
• Do the sources say the other international NGO?
  • Nope, there's one source that says there were two NGOs, and another source that identifies one of them. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
• Its Madagascar funding — it's at first unclear what "Its" refers to. I suggest: "USAID's funding for MSI in Madagascar". And suggest for the next sentence something like: "MSI stopped receiving $3.5 million from USAID, which was nearly half of its budget in Madagascar".
  • Done. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
• We begin 4 sentences in this paragraph with "it", referencing MSI. Suggest using "MSI" in one or more instances or playing around with sentence structures to help the reptition.
  • Done. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
• It was opposed by politicians and the public. — to be safe, maybe begin with: "The proposal was..."
  • Done. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
• We mention Nifin'Akanga early on, but only introduce and describe it the next paragraph.
  • Done. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
    • The structure looks better! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 17:03, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
• Goulamaly proposed an abortion law every year. — a few things. Could we specify since when she has proposed these abortion laws? Presumably since 2021, but just to be safe. It also feels a bit out of place in the middle of discussing reactions to the 2021 proposal. Maybe it would work better at the end? It might also be more fitting if we mention how the government has responded to the subsequent proposals, assuming the sources say anything about that.
  • The source itself isn't clear on what this means, actually. If you think the statement is unclear, then I would might just remove it as an unclear statement won't help readers. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
    • Hm. You could say "La Première reported in 2023 that Goulamaly was proposing an abortion bill every year, though they were always withdrawn." That would fit in the paragraph's timeline. I would not mind the sentence being removed either. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 17:03, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
      • Done. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 17:48, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
• Between 1990–1994 and 2015–2019 — could we simplify this to "Between 1990 and 2019"?
  • No, that would be imprecise. The data was not collected in 1990 specifically, it was collected over a five-year period, so that should be specified. I agree that it leads to awkward phrasing, though, so if you have a suggestion that would read better, we can go with that. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 04:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
    • Ah, I get it. It is probably OK. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 17:03, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
• but offers alternatives — it would be good to mention Andrianasolo's silence on what these alternatives are.
  • Done.

Verifiable with no original research

Source reliability looks very good! LINFO.re may not be too prominent, but it seems like a fine newspaper and either way it is not used much.

Spot-check

• "Madagascar - IVG : l'Eglise catholique réaffirme le rejet de sa dépénalisation" [Madagascar - Abortion: the Catholic Church reaffirms its rejection of decriminalization]. LINFO.re (in French). 2 August 2023. Retrieved 2 August 2024.
  • Looks good. Y
• "Madagascar: la légalisation de l'avortement fait l'objet d'un débat" [Madagascar: legalization of abortion is the subject of a debate]. Radio France Internationale (in French). 1 July 2018. Retrieved 2 August 2024.
  • Looks good. Y
• Cook Andersen, Margaret (1 June 2010). "Creating French Settlements Overseas: Pronatalism and Colonial Medicine in Madagascar". French Historical Studies. 33 (3): 436. doi:10.1215/00161071-2010-004.
  • Looks good, though I've added page 430 to the cite. Y
• Maistrellis, Emily; Juma, Kenneth; Khanal, Aagya; Kimemia, Grace; McGovern, Terry; Midy, Anne-Caroline; Rakotondratsara, Mamy Andrianina; Ratsimbazafy, Marie Rolland; Ravaoarisoa, Lantonirina; Razafimahatratra, Mamy Jean Jacques; Tamang, Anand; Tamang, Jyotsna; Ushie, Boniface Ayanbekongshie; Casey, Sara (19 July 2022). "Beyond abortion: impacts of the expanded global gag rule in Kenya, Madagascar and Nepal". BMJ Global Health. 7 (7): e008752. doi:10.1136/bmjgh-2022-008752. PMC 9301792. PMID 35853673.
  • Looks good. Y
• Bearak, Max; Morello, Carol (10 October 2018). "How a change in U.S. abortion policy reverberated around the globe". The Washington Post. Retrieved 16 July 2024.
  • Looks good alongside cite 3. Y
• Tétaud, Sarah (30 September 2022). "À Madagascar, l'avortement reste un crime, même pour raisons médicales" [In Madagascar, abortion remains a crime, even for medical reasons]. Radio France Internationale (in French). Retrieved 2 August 2024.</re
  • Looks good. Y
• R., Mandimbisoa (22 October 2021). "Masy Goulamaly défend la propostion de loi sur l'ITG" [Masy Goulamaly defends proposed law on therapeutic abortion]. Madagascar Tribune. Retrieved 2 August 2024.
  • Looks good. Y

Broad in its coverage

I see various medical journals and many Malagasy, French, and U.S. newspapers, so it seems like all types of sources are represented. The article summarizes many news articles broadly about the state of abortion in the country, and some more specific stories are well-used.

• There isn't much information about the period between 1920 and 1984. Do any sources talk about the effects of French pronatalist and anti-abortion laws? It's OK if not. Aside from that, didn't notice any major gaps in coverage.
  • No, I don't think there are any sources that cover this era. In general, I don't see much coverage of African colonial-era abortion. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 17:48, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
    • OK. The French Historical Studies article sounded promising, but it doesn't seem to discuss abortion as much as I thought it would. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 18:00, 13 July 2025 (UTC)

Stable

No recent content disputes or edit wars.

Illustrated

I didn't search much, but I couldn't find free images of MSI clinics, reninjaza, matrones, etc. so I think we are good. The nifin'akanga image seems properly liscenced.

Summary

@Vigilantcosmicpenguin: Here are some comments. Nice article! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:50, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

@Vigilantcosmicpenguin: it's been a pleasure to work with you. Thanks for all you do in the abortion topic area. Happy to pass! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 18:00, 13 July 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.