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Should the ordinal number be included on articles about the President?

Would appreciate the input of people here on how best to approach whether or not to include the ordinal number (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.) on articles concerning the current and previous holders of the office of the President.

Surtsicna is making the case that it should not be included, because it isn't in common usage in the way that it is in the US - ie, as in this edit, where they contend that 'Nobody in Ireland refers to her as "the 8th" in the way Trump is called "the 47th" in the US.' I don't disagree with that statement at all, but personally I don't agree with the exclusion of the ordinals as I do think it's useful information. This is in response to an edit made by Lucky9808 in which they point out that the presidents are numbered on the official website of the president (president.ie), and that it is therefore reasonable to include the number.

In previous edits (1, 2, 3), they have stated that 'This is simply not done in Ireland as it is in the US. People refer to the presidents by their names, not as "the Xth president"', that 'Nobody in Ireland knows or cares whether she was the seventh or the eighth. It's not the priority.', and that 'In Ireland it does not matter at all whether Higgins was the ninth or the eighth president.' I find the tone of this all rather insistent about information that, while not in common use as substitute for the name of the president, is also not *not* being used to describe them.

In the interests of balance, I will also point out that the stating the order isn't consistent on the website - it's given on the website on the pages for the first, second, fourth, seventh, eighth, and ninth, but not the third, fifth, or sixth.

I'm asking if we can form a consensus here about the inclusion or exclusion of these numbers so we can but the editing back and forth to bed. Personally I think that we ought to include them. Xx78900 (talk) 15:00, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

No - Users have correctly pointed out that ordinal numbers are not in common usage in Ireland for the offices such as President or Taoiseach, and major reliable secondary sources such as Irish newspaper reflect that. CeltBrowne (talk) 15:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

No - Per the quoted users, it's just not a thing. Sure, ordinals may be used very occasionally, but they're certainly not in common use in Ireland. I'd have no objection to a passing mention in the body of the article - "X was elected as Ireland's Yth president on some date..." where it's natural, but I'd be against changing every article to include it in the lede, or adding it to infoboxes. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 17:52, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

No - per above, and per Bastun. It's just not done in Ireland. The only exception really is when Douglas Hyde is referred to as the first President of Ireland as that was a fundamental event in the formation of the nation - Alison ^talk 18:45, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

• I am the editor mentioned above. Like others so far, I am not opposed to saying "Higgins is the ninth person to hold the office" or something like that where it's relevant and natural; but the lead is meant for essential information and this is, to say the least, not essential. I am particularly opposed to lead sentences such as "Higgins has been the ninth president of Ireland since 2011" because they may easily mislead: Ireland has not had 9 presidents since 2011. Surtsicna (talk) 19:33, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Qualified "No". With a caveat on following the sources/guidelines. And acknowledging the exceptions that prove the rule. In terms of:

• infobox parameters, and as others have indicated, we likely should follow Template:Infobox officeholder guidelines on the "|order=" parameter. And only populate that field in cases where there's "well-established use of such numbering in reliable sources".
• body text, I think we should also follow the sources. And only focus on numbers/ordering when multiple sources do. (And, just to be clear and as already noted in my follow-up to this rv pattern, we should not apply infobox guidelines to body text. And where, for example, Seán T. Ó Ceallagh is repeatedly described in reliable sources as the "second President of Ireland", we can reasonably refer to him as such in the body. And not use infobox parameter guidelines [or "if the lead here is changed you have to change everything" style arguments] as a rationale for changes/reverts to body text.)
• a "hard and fast rule", I agree with the other inputs above that while (to an Irish ear) it sounds "artificial" to refer to Hillery as the "6th president" (rather than "president from 1976 to 1990"), that doesn't mean that Hyde shouldn't be referred to as the "1st president". In short: just because we don't describe Higgins as the 9th president, it doesn't automatically follow that we shouldn't refer to Hyde as the first. Or Ó Ceallaigh as the 2nd. At least in the body....

My 2x cents anyway. Guliolopez (talk) 14:09, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

Pretty clear consensus here against the generalised inclusion. Thanks to all for your input! Xx78900 (talk) 10:22, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

Category:People on Irish postage stamps has been nominated for discussion

Category:People on Irish postage stamps has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Declangi (talk) 23:52, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Proposed merge at Talk:Sport in Galway#Proposed merge June 2025

There is a proposed merge discussion at Talk:Sport in Galway#Proposed merge June 2025 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Guliolopez (talk) 15:42, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

No thoughts on this? No concern that Galway's "sport" section is (now) entirely empty? And the only one to be so? Guliolopez (talk) 13:39, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:The Store Bar shooting#Requested move 29 June 2025

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:The Store Bar shooting#Requested move 29 June 2025 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. TarnishedPath^talk 11:10, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Multiple merge discussion

A discussion on multiple proposed mergers is ongoing at Outline of Belarus that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Necessary to add here because, in addition, the Article Alert doesn't update the discussion page target. Dege31 (talk) 03:13, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

Why we would have a discussion on Ireland-related page moves at the talk page of an article on Belarus is left as an exercise for the reader? Weird too that an editor with less than 4,000 edits can become a mentor... Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 09:52, 11 July 2025 (UTC)