User talk:Mmberney

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi Mmberney. Thank you for your work on Contour, Manchester. Another editor, Klbrain, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Thanks for creating this page for a new residential skyscraper, similar to the nearby Deansgate Square; it's referenced, and will no doubt grow as 2026 approaches.

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Klbrain}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

Klbrain (talk) 23:40, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi Mmberney. Thank you for your work on Victoria Riverside. Another editor, SunDawn, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Thank you for writing the article! Have a blessed day!

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|SunDawn}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 07:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Ordering of listed building articles

Hi there. Please could you rethink your reordering of listed building articles? For several reasons: (a) Historic England names are fairly arbitrary, and sometimes change; (b) alphabetical ordering doesn't usefully group nearby or related buildings; (c) other listed building articles have been conventionally ordered chronologically according to the ages of the buildings, and you are introducing inconsistency. Pinging Peter I. Vardy, who wrote many of these articles. Dave.Dunford (talk) 12:31, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

I agree. The reason that I order listed buildings by date is that there is some logic in it. Historic England sometimes adds a definite article, sometime an indefinite article and sometimes no article at all, even in the same parish for the same type of building. This results often in no logical order. IMO opinion it is of some value to the reader to see buildings ordered according to the age of their origin, rather than by name, which has little or no value. If you look at my user page, you will see that I have created many hundreds of lists of listed buildings over the last ten years. If you choose to reorder them all, it will take a while.--Peter I. Vardy (talk) 14:04, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the message, Dave.Dunford and your response, Peter I. Vardy. Evidently, it was not apparent (to me, at least) that the lists had been ordered according to building age (or their probable age, in many cases). I merely looked at them from the point of view of a new reader, and how they'd potentially navigate the article, likely not knowing any details of the entries or their ages. Sorting by name seemed to make the most logical sense, appreciating what you suggest are arbitrary names given to them by HE. Unless you were a local historian though, would the 'official' name of the entries that didn't have their own articles materially matter in this context?

How do you suggest to proceed; I'd be willing to go back and reorder the Greater Manchester ones I've systematically gone through over the past several weeks (as that's my home patch), though the tables in the hundreds of lists can obviously be sorted by name or age, or grade in any case, and none of the entries have been lost or significantly altered (mainly fixed typos and removal of double spacing). Perhaps for new lists a note could be added stating how they'd been ordered for future reference? Kind regards. Mmberney (talk) 21:04, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

It's a difficult one. Although I stand by my reasons (a) and (b), I do have some sympathy with your reasoning (and other things being equal I might have chosen alphabetical order too if I'd been putting them together – though in the only one I did write, Listed buildings in New Mills, I chose to order them by location). But the fact that Peter has written literally thousands of these articles to the same pattern does create a pretty significant precedent, I think. Dave.Dunford (talk) 21:24, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

Thanks to both. Sorry, but I thought it would have been clear that the buildings are arranged by age, and that this gives some sense of historical perspective to the list, rather than it being just an arbitrary list of names. If the reader wants them in alphabetical order for any reason, it only takes a click. Some of the names I use are not those used by HE. Some of these are obsolete - change of name or change of use (pubs change their names quite often), or I use "Former X Bank" rather than "X Bank" when it has not been a bank for decades; some are wrong, including typos (I send a list of errors every week to HE); some are silly, eg."House next to No." which I correct to "House next to No. 9 York Place" (say). No, I am not willing to add a note as you suggest to the hundreds of lists I have already created, or to any future list. It might have been simpler just to use the titles given by HE, but the list would then contain errors, and IMO an encyclopaedia should be as accurate as possible, and should ensure that it does not include known errors. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 09:22, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

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