Talk:Watling Street

Celtic?

Do we have any citations regarding Celtic use? Watling St is pretty straight and most cetltic things were anything but -also is there any evidence of settlement at either Canterbury or St ALbans pre Roman? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.74.108.30 (talk) 9 March 2007

Single point coordinates for a linear feature and WP:LINEAR

The lead to WP:LINEAR says this:

There are a number of ways in which coordinates relating to linear features can be added to Wikipedia. As yet, there is no single method which has achieved consensus. The best method may depend on the type of feature, its length, and the number of significant points of interest along it (though such points need not be sufficiently notable as to warrant their own article).

and later:

Editors may give:

1. One pair of coordinates, for the mid point
2. One pair of coordinates, for the most significant point (e.g. the estuary or mouth of a river)
3. Two pairs of coordinates, one for each end
4. Three pairs of coordinates, combining the above
5. Multiple coordinates, for points of interest
6. No coordinates

— (numbering added to facilitate discussion)

The status of the article before today was #6. Abductive made a bold edit, changing the status to #3 (though how somewhere in Canterbury counts as "the most significant point" is highly debatable, even if it was the Roman capital). I reverted that edit to status quo ante but Lord Belbury reinstated. So I edited again to status #1 (and arguably #3, since this is one of the postulated sites for the Battle of Watling Street but I won't be surprised if it is reverted.

So we have a dispute about what to do and need to reach consensus. (I acknowledge that I should have done this formal WP:BRD process first).

IMO,

• Option #1 is good but would take some effort to determine the precise mid-point;
• #2 is the least satisfactory, since it rests on editor opinion
• #3 would be good but there are three start points on the south coast.
• #4 reintroduces the problems of #2
• #5 is probably the best, especially if it includes the significant settlements like Lactodurum

Comments? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 11:56, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

The article actually started off at a seventh option last week, which I think had been the case for a while: it had primary coordinates at a point on the road somewhere north of Birmingham, which Abductive removed as "inappropriate", clarifying on their talk page that it was because this point was arbitrary, which is a fair point. I think option #1 here is fine if someone just eyeballs it. --Lord Belbury (talk) 12:12, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, that makes more sense. The point I chose (in Northamptonshire) was fairly but not entirely arbitrary. It 'feels' about halfway from the Dover to Wroxeter though it might be a little too far to the north. It is also somewhere in between settlements, to avoid confusion with any other feature. (My final reason for the choice turns out to be wrong: the most-cited site of the Battle of Watling Street is south of Towcester, not north – but my "middle of nowhere to avoid confusion" would rule that out anyway.)

So is someone volunteering to work out where the half-way point is? I'm not that fussed about precision, there or thereabouts is good enough for me. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 15:53, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

I could look into it too. But it is not a continuous road, and its path is uncertain. A route map would be pretty difficult. I originally removed all coords. Abductive (reasoning) 16:41, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

My preference would be for no COORD at all, least of all one that appears in the top line of the article. A detailed map would involve quite a lot of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH to extrapolate from the few sources we have. We could add a table of major Romano-British settlements on the route with their coordinates but IMO that is as far as we should go. Guessing that this is the emerging consensus, I will now remove the {{coord}} that I added, returning to the status quo as it was last night. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 19:12, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Bend in river

Although a car goes slower round a bend, I don't think a river does. The volume of water past a point in a river is approximately constant, or it would back up and form a lake. DMichael6 (talk) 16:40, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Mediolanum (Whitchurch)

is this place to be linked? -- 2001:4DD5:4643:0:8039:1C4F:D3FD:4586 (talk) 00:53, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

As it is north of Wroxeter, it probably doesn't qualify as Watling Street. However the table showing the route of the Antonine Iter II had Mediolanum as 'unknown' without explanation (which may just show how long ago it was written). I have just added it: if there is an issue then it can be explained here. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 11:18, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Tollgate hotel

Discussion transferred from user talk:JMF so that other editors can contribute to the WP:Bold, revert, discussion.

Hi, leaving this topic here as my revision was undone by you on the Watling Street page.

I believe my brief edit regarding the Tollgate Hotel is of national significance in both transport (surrounding the local area, Watling Street specifically and the wider route), local history, and wartime history. It started as a turnpike inn in the 1800s - the name comes from the former turnpike road itself, which is no longer since it's been significantly upgraded since the 19th century. The development of the turnpike, then the A2 was shaped around the Tollgate Hotel; majority of the structure still stands today since being rebuilt in 1923 which was 102 years ago.

The site later played a role in WWII as a battle HQ.

2006, the Highways Agency (gov) bought it to widen the A2, and established a car park within the site and used the site as offices for the A2 work. So, it’s shaped how people move around the country. It also sits in a protected Green Belt area and an air quality zone, which ties into bigger national conversations about the environment and development. With public interest and legal disputes around what happens to it next, I believe it is of national interest and its the reason why I added it as a brief section into the article. I think that is quite a reasonable explanation onto why. I would revert the edit to reinstate but you have been on Wikipedia longer than me and have more experience so please let me know. Thank you Sunolafjagtenben-hur (talk) 15:07, 24 May 2025 (UTC) 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:10, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

The problem as I see it is that it is an WP:undue detail.

• Watling Street has been in existence for at least 2000, so an event that was significant for maybe 20 years has a hill to climb if it is to earn more than a sentence in the body.
• There were many tollgates on many roads: was this the first anywhere?
• The structure has its own article, why does it need a significant WP:cfork here too?

Am I being too picky? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:14, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

It begs the obvious question: why not put it into A2 road (Great Britain)? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 18:49, 24 May 2025 (UTC)