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I think the montage of pictures in the infobox doesn't do justice as it is exclusively the Lunar celebrations of East and South East Asia. Some images should be changed so that other Lunar celebrations are also represented. WR18:34, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Chinese new year is the second full moon after the winter solstice โ before, yes, but so is the Gregorian new year, so in effect a meaningless assertion. The trigger event for the CNY is the solstice, not the equinox.
The Hindu new year is when the sun moves into the constellation of Pisces and happens after the equinox.[1]
In Southen India (Dakskina Bharat), during Gupta era, the first new moon after Spring Equinox (March 20-21) is the mark of "start of the year" called Ugadi [[1]] Sarma Pisapati (talk) 14:13, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
According to https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/2842/jewish/Our-Other-Head.htm, the Jewish year begins on the first of Tishreiโa day we observe as Rosh Hashanah, โthe Head of the Yearโโand ends twelve (or thirteen) months later, on the 29th of Elul. and then it goes on to say that the month of Nissan, occurring midway through the Tishrei-headed year, designatedโin the very first mitzvah commanded to the Jewish peopleโas โthe head of months, the first of the months of your yearโ The source goes on to explain the apparent dichotomy, but the fact remains the Hebrew New Year is Rosh Hashanah. It also seems very significant that https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/israel/ gives the dates for Rosh Hashanah but not for Nissan as it is not a public holiday. TL;DR: why is Nissan even mentioned in this article? --๐๐๐ฝ (talk) 23:00, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Qiushufang has deleted your addition as unsourced. (I concur.) If it could be supported by citation, it would need to say something more general and not get bogged down in detail of a specific year. I suggest something The Hindu calendar's first month is Chaitra (variable dates in March/April[2]), which is the first new moon after the March equinox.[citation needed] This is the same basis for calculation as that for Nisan (the first month of the Hebrew calendar, though not its New Year's Day). but its showstopper is that I have observed (aka WP:OR) the rule "first new moon after the March equinox" but I haven't found a citation for it. --๐๐๐ฝ (talk) 23:27, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
References
^TimeAndDate.com presents Chaitra Sukhladi in Gregorian Calendars
As Wiki editors, we need to follow WP:RS, WP:DUE and WP:OR policies.
Most WP:RS sources refer to Lunar New Year as the Chinese new year, as below examples:
According to WP:OR, Wiki editors are not allowed to do original research to determine whether it is a lunar or lunisolar new year. It is up to the reliable WP:RS sources to do so.
Even WP:RS source from Islamic country, Al Jazeera , notes Lunar New Year as Chinese New Year (not Islamic New Year)
Also , officially, the United Nation, considers Lunar New Year as the Chinese New Year ( not the Islamic New year)
The Lunar New Year has been officially listed as a United Nations (UN) floating holiday in its calendar of conferences and meetings as from 2024.
Besides Vietnam, China, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan, Korea, Canada, Suriname, and some states in the US, including California and New York, officially celebrate the Lunar New Year as a public holiday.
The decision marks the Lunar New Year becoming the eighth floating holiday observed by UN staff worldwide, together with Yom Kippur, Vesak Day, Diwali, Gurpurab, Orthodox Christmas, Orthodox Good Friday and Nowruz.
The 78th United Nations General Assembly unanimously passed a resolution on Friday, officially designating the Lunar New Year, also known as the Spring Festival, as a UN floating holiday. Experts said the move shows the influential power of Chinese culture
I'm not entirely sure what your point is here. This article is about numerous lunar/lunisolar new years across various cultures. Typically, at least in the US/Western cultural sphere, Lunar New Year = Chinese New Year, and we have a separate article for Chinese New Year and related celebrations. Sarsenet (talk) 04:38, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Quite. Indeed the very first line of the article, in italic so you can't miss it, reads:
This article is about the family of festivals worldwide. For specific festivals, see ยง Celebrations by region. For the lunisolar Chinese celebration in particular, see Chinese New Year.
It is important that Wikipedia provides a worldwide view, gives readers a broad perspective that theirs is not the only case, and gives an overall scientific, astronomical and historic contexts. The article goes on very quickly to identify that that there are many east- and southeast-Asian cultures that celebrate lunisolar new year at the same time as China and strongly dislike the adjective "Chinese" being attached to it. But Wikipedia is not here to put WP:right great wrongs. ๐๐๐ฝ (talk) 10:27, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that Wikipedia should provide a broad perspective and global view. My limited point was to emphasize that we should follow WP:RS and WP:DUE according to which most common "Lunar New Year" according to WP:RS sources is South-east Asian/ Chinese New Year.
Some editors were trying to over emphasize Islamic new year as the Lunar new year, which is not supported by majority of WP:RS sources, and hence should be avoided.
Right now, the first para of the article is a general intro, the east- and south-east Asian calendar comes next and then the Islamic and other calendars. By way of NPOV "equality of misery", the Islamic calendar is first in the collage. (It didn't help that the image from Hong Kong that someone wanted to put first in the collage was yet another firework display that could be anywhere at any time.)
So I think the current position we have is that all the major traditions are each equally mistreated and equally unhappy, and equality is the best we can do. ๐๐๐ฝ (talk) 21:11, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This section break was introduced after 23:59 on 1 March 2025 (UTC), so the first few comments partly respond to points in the preceding section before the need for a separate section for this (different) topic was fully identified.
The first image in the collage appears as the representative image of this article on Wikipedia.
I don't think the current image does any justice to Lunar new year article, as it is an image of Afghani children in a refugee camp. It represents an Afghani refugee camp and has very little to do with the Lunar New Year, except that it was taken on the Islamic (Arab) New Year.
I am not too sure if the Islamic New Year is even celebrated widely as a New Year event, to the best of my knowledge.
Also, Iran ( an Islamic country) has its own separate New Year Nowruz
Bangladesh ( an Islamic country) has its own New Year Pohela Boishakh.
Okay, I would suggest Lunar New Year image from the largest Islamic country in the world, Indonesia, which actually celebrates the South-east Asian Lunar New year.
Indonesia welcomes the Year of the Snake with dragon puppets and drum displays
I hope you will be okay with this Wiki commons Lunar new year image from Islamic country, Indonesia as the first image. Thanks a lot for very informative discussion. Thanks. RogerYg (talk) 21:35, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
First and most importantly, it is not up to me โ I'm just another editor like everyone else. The content of the collage is determined by consensus, so a change will need discussion: if you want it to change, please start a new discussion topic.
Second, the debate is not about Islam but about the Hijri Lunar calendar that is used by most Muslims for their religious practice. I am not a Muslim but I rather suspect that they would not accept that image as in any way representing the calendric milestones of their faith, where each month has a religious significance.
(But IMO it is a far better image to represent the Lunisolar New Year than the 'yet another fireworks picture' that is currently there. But that is for another discussion.) ๐๐๐ฝ (talk) 23:59, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly think that "Lunar new year celebration in Surakarta, Indonesia" is a much more representative image for the first position in the collage than any other image we have, and I am happy to discuss the same here. Others can propose more relevant new images. Thanks. RogerYg (talk) 07:46, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Muharram in Iran Qom City 2006
The first celebration mentioned in the lead is the East- and South-east Asian festival, even though it is not a true lunar new year. To maintain WP:NPOV, it seems obvious to me that the first image in the collage should be one that recognises the other great world-wide culture โ Islam and 1 Muharram โ which is a true lunar new year. Yes, the representative image could be better, such as this one (Muharram in Iran Qom City 2006 ). --๐๐๐ฝ (talk) 10:37, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Iran ( an Islamic country) has its own separate New Year Nowruz, it does not celebrate New Year on Muharram.
Even WP:RS source from Islamic country, Al Jazeera , notes Lunar New Year as South-eastern New Year (not Islamic New Year)
I think claiming Muharram to be a Lunar New Year, is not supported by WP:RS sources, and seems to be an an exercise in Original research, which may violate WP:OR policy.
Further, I am not a Muslim, but I have some idea that Muharram is associated with mourning, and adding it as a Lunar New year, which can be associated with celebration, may be considered a blasphemy.
By contrast, Ashura is a day of mourning for Shia Muslims, who annually commemorate the death of Husayn ibn Ali
I would suggest to avoid such controversial issues ( and images) that may be blasphemous, and of which we have limited knowledge.
The first image is also from Islamic country, Indonesia, which is infact the largest Islamic country in the world, and it celebrates Lunar New Year along with rest of South-east Asia, and this is also reported widely in WP:RS sources, and therefore is WP:DUE and non-controversial.
I'm afraid it seems that you don't appreciate the calendrical significance of the two major strands of Islam, Shia and Sunni (each of which has subsidiary sects, but don't affect the calendar). Each has its own calendar, although they use the same epoch, the Hijra of Mohammed.
Shia Islam is the smaller of the two, concentrated in historic Persia (Iran, Iraq (part), Syria (part) and Lebanon (part)): it operates the Solar Hijri calendar, whose new year is determined absolutely by the northern spring equinox. Consequently, it is entirely irrelevant to this article (just like 1 January in the Gregorian calendar).
Sunni Islam is far larger and more global in its reach โ notably in North Africa, south-west Asia ("Middle East"), south Asia, south-east Asia, south-central Asia. 1 Muharram is its first day, determined by observation of the crescent new moon (see Islamic calendar#Hilal). It begins a new year in the Anno Hegirae era. That day is recognised in Sunni Islam as holy: it is not for you or me to make judgements as to how it should be celebrated (observant Muslims don't consume alcohol).
WP:Wikipedia is not censored but I know of no challenges to any images in Wikipedia except those of Mohammed. That reads as a "make-weight" argument.
As I said earlier, this article is about the calendar used by Sunni Islam, not about Islam in general or even Sunni Islam in particular. I see no dichotomy with Muslims in Indonesia celebrating the secular festival as well as the religious event. That is a widespread practice all over the world and with many beliefs and none. The first image in the infobox is there because it recognises the first day of the AH era โ a true lunar calendar โ not because of Islam. ๐๐๐ฝ (talk) 16:41, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I would humbly note that I provided multiple WP:RS sources for my reasonings, bit I do not see any WP:RS sources provided by you in this discussion.
This article is about "Lunar New Year", there is a separate Wiki article about Islamic New Year.
Islamic New Year does not have any representative image, so I would suggest you may add these images on that page.
I think Muharram image would not be a representative image for "Lunar new Year" article, much of which talks about celebration, and it may be disrespectful to Islam to misuse such an image here, which is also not supported by WP:RS sources, even from Islamic countries.
The article is about the lunar new year, not the Chinese New Year (which has become renamed in recent years to Lunar New Year for political reasons). There is a separate article about that. Yes, I appreciate that this nomenclature is unpopular in south-east Asia (and recently in the US) but see WP:RGW. It is what it is.
It is beyond dispute that the Lunar Hijri calendar (aka Islamic calendar) is a true lunar calendar, whose new year starts twelve lunations after the last new year, as it has done for nearly 1500 lunar "years". And yes, there is also a separate article (Islamic New Year) for that too. That and the Islamic calendar article have more RSs than you can shake a stick at; I fail to see any value in repeating them here.
So coming back to the main point at issue: right now, the "Chinese cultural sphere" (lunisolar) new year already gets top billing in the lead; the Hijri (lunar) new year gets second. But not satisfied with that, you also want the CCS to be first in the collage too? That is simply not reasonable.
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
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Not done The current text is accurate. Your request is inaccurate. Hint: Lunar New Year, not Lunisolar New Year. --๐๐๐ฝ (talk) 00:11, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
