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Inclusion of poor-quality image

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Several founding members of GWAR attended VCU; pictured is Dave Brockie
Brockie in 2005

User:ElKevbo has reinserted the top image of Dave Brockie, a VCA alumni.

A consensus of editors who wrote MOS:IMAGEQUALITY agreed that editors should "think carefully about which images best illustrate the subject matter".

In fact, the top image isn't what Brockie really looks like, because he's obviously wearing a costume. The image below is what Brockie actually looks like.

I would suggest neither image be included, as neither meets the quality or realism Wikipedia readers expect.

The input of others would be appreciated. Magnolia677 (talk) 18:21, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If you are suggesting that Brockie is best known outside of his work in GWAR then I think you need to make a more convincing case. If you are saying that the image doesn't belong because you don't think it's appropriate that an image of a man in a costume is not appropriate then I'm afraid that I disagree.
I also disagree that the image is not "realistic." It's a photograph - I don't know how much more realistic it can get. It happens to be a photo of a man in an outlandish costume but that's an accurate depiction of the subject - he is a well-known stage performer who, like many performers, wears a costume. Not liking or appreciating his costume or the genre in which he performs is not a valid reason for removing the photo.
I may be amenable to an argument that this person is not noteworthy enough for his image to be included in this list article - that may be a realistic and legitimate opinion and reason to remove the image. But that argument has not been advanced. And it may be a difficult one to make given the other images that are included in the article. In other words, if you'd like to have a discussion about the criteria that should be used throughout the article to determine which images should be included then I am all for that. But I am not amenable to removing this one image of a VCU alumnus in the role for which he is known simply because he is in costume.
There is also a mention of "quality" above which may be worth addressing in more detail if you'd like to add something more. ElKevbo (talk) 18:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for framing it "clear as a mud-free river", as we say in the Delta. Yes, exactly, it's a photo of some unrecognizable guy in a costume, and unfortunately, none of the many online photos of him performing sans the costume are available without copyright. Should be deleted until we locate a photo that better shows this VCU alumni. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:02, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I still don't completely understand your objection. I don't think it's wise to assume that the photo is "unrecognizable" simply because you don't recognize the person in it. I don't recognize any of the people in the other photos in this article - does that mean I get to remove them? Or are you asserting that performers in a costume should not be included in this article?
(And the singular of "alumni" is "alumnus.") ElKevbo (talk) 20:56, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Let's see what other editors may say about removing the photo of this alumni. Thanks. Magnolia677 (talk) 22:12, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. WT:UNI may be a good venue to solicit additional opinions; I'd be happy to drop a (neutral, of course!) note there if you'd like. ElKevbo (talk) 00:20, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to me that the top picture illustrates Brockie in the role for which he is notable, and which h is directly relevant to the context of the listing "GWAR – several founding members of the band, including including Dave Brockie" It might be worth noting in the caption that he is performing with GWAR in the picture.
On the matter of recognizability, it seems likely that Brockie, being mainly notable for being in GWAR, is at least as likely to be recognizable in costume as out of it.
I do not, therefore, see that there is any reason to exclude the top picture on quality grounds Robminchin (talk) 01:02, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

MOS:IMAGES states that images should look like what they are meant to illustrate.

Chris Fehn wore a mask when he performed with Slipknot. At List of Wayne State University people, should we include a photo of him in a mask, or looking like a normal person?

Veronica Hart became a porn actress. What photo should we include at List of University of Nevada, Las Vegas, alumni?

For Dave Brockie--the subject of this discussion--his Wikipedia article leads with a photo of him out of costume, not dressed wildly. Just because Brockie occasionally dresses up for work, does not mean Wikipedia not should seek out a normal image which shows him as a real person. Magnolia677 (talk) 17:26, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's become clear to me that your opinion about this photo is somehow tied to your judgement of the worth of this artist's art. He doesn't "occasionally dress up for work," he wears a costume as a performer. An image of him without the costume is no more "normal" than an image of him in a costume nor is a he less of a "real person" when he's on stage performing. ElKevbo (talk) 22:16, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A photo of a person in Wikipedia is used to identify the person. If the text is dedicated to the occupation of a person, then the photo may serve for an identification of person's occupation (or fooling around). In this context, "notable alumni" it is clear the image must be where the person is identifiable. --Altenmann >talk 21:55, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree - a photo in Wikipedia is not used to "identify" anyone. This is an encyclopedia article, not a police lineup. This particular person is notable for being a costumed performer in a heavy metal band. Given the consistency with which all of the members of the band perform in costume, he is *most* identifiable in costume than out of it. ElKevbo (talk) 22:16, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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