Talk:George Floyd protests in Portland, Oregon

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Nightmare Elk

Article "Senior Homeland Security leaders pushed unfounded antifa conspiracy at 2020 Portland protests, report states"

This might be useful. Doug Weller talk 14:50, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've added sentences here, at 2020 deployment of federal forces in the United States#Lawsuits and investigations 2, and at Antifa (United States)#George Floyd protests (2020). – Arms & Hearts (talk) 11:36, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Article

To add later: Homeland Security Admits It Tried to Manufacture Fake Terrorists for Trump Kire1975 (talk) 19:27, 8 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge from Indigenous Peoples Day of Rage

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge; independent topics; this page is WP:TOOLONG for the merge. Klbrain (talk) 18:32, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’d like to propose merging Indigenous Peoples Day of Rage into George Floyd protests in Portland, Oregon, as the former can more easily be explained in the context of the broader 2020 protests and a sub-section already exists here. It would also solve the problem of Indigenous Peoples Day of Rage directing to an article about a single-city event in 2020 that isn’t obviously representative or more notable than contemporary and subsequent demonstrations elsewhere ^[1]VibrantThumpcake (talk) 11:00, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ https://www.indigenousaction.org/indigenous-peoples-day-of-rage-2022/

Oppose merge per WP:NOTMERGE, which says a merge should be avoided if "the separate topics could be expanded into longer standalone (but cross-linked) articles", or "the topics are discrete subjects warranting their own articles". George Floyd protests in Portland, Oregon is already too long, and there are plenty of sources specifically focused on the Indigenous Peoples Day of Rage: The Guardian, Axios, The Washington Post, Oregon Public Broadcasting, etc. I would prefer to see the Indigenous Peoples Day of Rage kept, expanded, and even promoted to Good article status. Merging does not seem appropriate. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 12:37, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree that this single event is notable enough to warrant a separate article, and I think that its relevance outside of the broader protests of 2020 isn’t likely to grow with time. Even if it did, the more important issue I see is in conflating the name with that single event. That said, I’m happy to take it to WP:PAM to get some other opinions if you feel strongly about it.VibrantThumpcake (talk) 13:20, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what you mean by "conflating the name with that single event", and the relevance doesn't need to "grow with time" -- the event is already notable. You've already made an argument for a merge, time to let others weigh in. Thanks! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 13:24, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See the reference in my initial comment, the Day of Rage has been an annual call to action across North Americas for at least 3 of the last 5 years https://indigenouspeoplesdayofrage.org/

To the second point, I think recentism per WP:EVENTCRIT should also be a consideration. It’s totally within bounds to question whether the event itself has a significant lasting effect set apart from countless other similar incidents across the months of sustained protest in 2020-21 PDX. VibrantThumpcake (talk) 13:39, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't worry about conflating; if a Day of Rage page is created for the larger concept (heck, be bold and create one if you think the topic is notable!), this entry ("Indigenous Peoples Day of Rage") could easily become "Indigenous Peoples Day of Rage (2020)" or "Indigenous Peoples Day of Rage (Portland, Oregon)". I think this event does indeed "set apart from countless other similar incidents across the months of sustained protest", based on international coverage, and I don't think attempting to merge this into an already very long Wikipedia article is helpful to the project. Part of the lasting impact of Indigenous Peoples Day of Rage is continued coverage of the fate of the Statue of Abraham Lincoln as well as Theodore Roosevelt, Rough Rider. Again, I suggest we work to expand and complete (not merge) this entry. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 13:49, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - The reasons given aren't justified. The page is long enough. Kire1975 (talk) 06:19, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. These protests have related but different foci. As discussed above, this can be expanded but merging would reduce that possibility instead encouraging expansion. Yuchitown (talk) 14:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - These are two separate issues - they are related (as protests that occurred in 2020) but concern different topics that are being protested. The article can and should be improved, however merging it into the George Floyd protests could diminish it and make it harder to find for our readership. It is notable on its own and as stated above, Indigenous Peoples Day of Rage had lasting impact. Netherzone (talk) 15:00, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per all of the above PersusjCP (talk) 20:48, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - I can't really follow the nominators logic here. We are talking about an event that, regardless of other events that are simultaneously happening, is specifically about Indigenous people. --ARose Wolf 14:55, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Revert on 16:38, 9 May 2025

Hi Kire1975,

I saw you reverted my recent BOLD edit. I would encourage you to follow WP:BRD guidelines of giving your reasoning in the talk page after reverting, not over the edit history. This helps keep conversation flowing, informs the editor of the revert, and keeps everybody civil.

Regarding the revert itself, I am disappointed to see my edit reverted so quickly, especially considering the time I spent crafting it. I encourage you to read into my sources further, as considering you reverted my edit only 10 minutes after its publication, unless you are a very quick reader, you only skimmed the sources (and that is assuming you saw my edit the moment it was published). I am curious as to why you think it is my opinion, as the sources I cited have stated a few times over that protests amplified over the summer, and increased in ferocity. It is also natural to say that because the protests continued into 2021, articles written in May of 2020 should be considered articles published early into the events, and should not be cited due to likely not being up to date.

Sincerely,

MMD † (talk) 21:02, 9 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

While starting out as mostly peaceful demonstrations, by late summer of 2020 riots had exceeded peaceful protests in number and percentage overall

According to the source you cite to support this claim, there were more peaceful protests than riotes at all times during the spring and summer of 2020 in Washington. The other graphs refer to state violence. The other two sources are an abstract from a student thesis and an article about an online poll withe questionable reliability that points to a 404 page and another poll about the opinions of voters in Portland. None of the inline citations at the end of the next sentence mention arson, and the only one that mentions property damage or vandalism is a summary by the pollster talking about people's opinions.

By all accounts, the protests were "mostly peaceful" and these pages have been plagued by insincere editors who have been trying to call them riots for years.

Finally, my decision to revert is guided primarily by WP:LEADCITE which states that the lead usually repeats information in the body and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports it. Your inline citations are quite dense and I'll admit I've not been able to digest all of it. If you are certain that it must be included in the lead, I ask that you please elaborate and clarify any challengable statements by adding quotes to the citations, or just keep it to the body of the article. Kire1975 (talk) 21:38, 9 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I do not see how reports on protests in Washington have anything to do with my edit, we are talking about protests in Portland Oregon, not the state of Washington. Concerning the graphs, this one in particular, the map displays a comparison between amount of peaceful protests (blue) vs riots (orange). It is based on major cities, not state counts, for example there is an individual count between Portland and Salem. Notice how Portland Oregon is the only city in the US with a riot count that seems to exceed or come close to the amount of peaceful protests. This seems enough notable evidence to say that riots at the very least equaled peaceful protests.

While it is true none of my sources mention arson, I did not spend my time looking for a source for my claim that arson occurred because it struck me as a fairly WP:SKYBLUE thing. If you simply look up "Portland 2020 Protests" the first image that comes up is a burning building. Perhaps it is just me assuming, as I lived in Portland during the riots I personally saw rioters burning buildings, I assumed it was common knowledge that arson had occurred. If needed and you want, I will happily add a citation for the arson statement to support my claim, I will have no trouble finding one. Ditto for the property damage claim.

I would hope you are not accusing me of being insincere, as I'm sure you are aware that accusing me of intrusive and/or intentionally unhelpful edits without any due evidence is a clear violation of WP:AGF.

Concerning WP:LEADCITE, I understand that yes the ideal circumstance would be if I first edit the body, then update the lead, however I felt in this scenario I would start with the lead because it includes a statement that would then contradict my additions to a body paragraph, therefore the article would contradict itself etc etc. Unfortunately the truth is I am time-constrained, I just don't have time to write multiple body paragraphs and an updated lead section in quick succession. I was hoping another editor would contribute positively by adding a body paragraph to reflect my statement, or something similar, instead of just reverting the lot. I will say that was optimistic of me. Regardless, while yes WP:LEADCITE is good practice, it is a guideline, not a policy, so a revert of my entire subsection seems hasty and quite harsh.

I would be happy to include quotes to clarify.

Any other issues to clear up? If we are clear, I will re-add my section with your proposed changes.

MMD † (talk) 20:17, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www.indigenousaction.org/indigenous-peoples-day-of-rage-2022/

[1]