Talk:Deer Lady

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 talk 21:01, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that an attempt to use automated dialogue replacement in the Reservation Dogs episode "Deer Lady" failed because it sounded too much like Yoda?

• Source: https://www.indiewire.com/features/craft/reservation-dogs-episode-3-native-boarding-school-sound-1234892753/

• ALT1: ... that Deer Lady in the Reservation Dogs episode of the same name is based on a Native American mythological spirit called Deer Woman? Source: https://tvline.com/interviews/reservation-dogs-recap-season-3-episode-3-deer-lady-origin-story-1235023304/
• ALT2: ... that the nuns who spoke gibberish in the Reservation Dogs episode "Deer Lady" were supposed to sound like Charlie Brown's teacher? Source: https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/reservation-dogs-native-boarding-schools-deer-lady-episode-1235692611/ and https://www.cbc.ca/arts/q/how-reservation-dogs-brilliant-use-of-gibberish-portrayed-the-horror-of-residential-schools-1.7043429
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Dan Caine

Created by TheDoctorWho (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.

TheDoctorWho (talk) 23:21, 25 February 2025 (UTC).

• This article, created on 20 Feb, is new enough, long enough, well-sourced, and presentable. QPQ done. All hooks cited. The citations for ALT0 and ALT2 check out, but it should be noted that the citation for ALT1 doesn't explicitly say that the Deer Lady in the show was based on the Deer Woman of Native myth. In any case, the first hook is my favourite. Good to go. Tenpop421 (talk) 12:11, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Deer Lady/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: TheDoctorWho (talk · contribs) 18:10, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk · contribs) 06:51, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

Hey, I will be reviewing this GA :) I reviewed the other two RD episodes and was very impressed so I have high hopes for this. So far it looks very impressive - well done! This was really interesting to read and it is a very strong article.

From first glance I have the following comments:

1.) Plot - Can you explain who Bear and Deer Lady are, and link them if possible?

2.) Filming - "Goulet stated she wanted to specifically use this era because of the way "intense realism" and "something fantastical" was mixed" - This needs a ref as it is a quote.

3.) Filming - "Queton held Zoom meetings with the actors for lessons before filming began" - Can you clarify what the lessons were?

4.) Filming - "Goulet said that Native American beliefs on hair caused the production team to spend "weeks" deciding whether to use a wig or to actually cut someone's hair" - maybe you could explain what the beliefs, as some readers may not click on the article and know.

5.) Post-production and music - "The post-production team asked the actresses who portrayed the nuns to return" - Maybe added "to return to set" for clarity.

6.) Post-production and music - "German–Dutch" hybrid" - this needs a ref as it is a quote

7.) Post-production and music - ""nonsense ad-libs and mismatched English sound as booming as a dragon's bellow."" - This needs a ref next to it as it is a quote.

8.) Post-production and music - "that it was "going slower than normal."" - Can you please clarify what was going slower than normal?

9.) Post-production and music -"called it "the most challenging thing to work on" and said that there were probably "40 different compelling cuts of this episode in our Avid projects." - Needs a ref as it is a quote

10.) Post-production and music - "A viewer discretion notice was added at the suggestion of Horn" - Can this be expanded? Is this related to the music and why was it added? Why did Horn suggest it?

11.) Lead - "The episode received positive reviews from critics and was nominated for a Creative Arts Emmy Award." - Can this be expanded a bit?

Other than the other comments this looks very very very good. I checked earwig and there is no copyright violation, so when these are addressed I will do a source check and it should be ready to be passed :) Well done! DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 06:51, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

@DaniloDaysOfOurLives: Done on everything except why Horn suggested it since it didn't explicitly say, but I still expanded the paragraph about the warning in general from other pieces of the source, including why it was added! TheDoctorWho (talk) 03:08, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the changes - I now do not have any concerns :) I have spotchecked sources 2, 7, 16, 19, 20 and 28 and have not found any issues. I am going to pass this. Well done!! :) This is a seriously impressive article, and I'd recommend going to FA in the future. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 03:39, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Tribal Affiliations

@Yuchitown: Starting a discussion here, since my main issue was the sourcing at first, and that has since been resolved. I'm just wondering if listing the tribal affiliations are specifically important enough for this article? While it is a point that this primarily indigenous cast and crew, their specific affiliations didn't play a role in the episode. TheDoctorWho (talk) 01:55, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Yes, listing tribal affiliations is important to this article since it's supremely important that this is an Indigenous-led show with Indigenous actors. The subject of the episode, Indian boarding schools, relates directly to the actors who are descendants of residential school survivors, as is the use of Kiowa language, taught by a Kiowa man and spoken by a youth of Kiowa descent. Yuchitown (talk) 02:17, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Is it okay that I at least shift the affiliations to their first mention in the article body rather than the lead to avoid cluttering it? TheDoctorWho (talk) 03:15, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

It's typical to identify a person's tribal affiliation with the first mention of them. Tribal affliations aren't "cluttering." I see from your editing history, you don't deal with Native American topics often. Yuchitown (talk) 14:52, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

I don't, but I deal with television articles a lot, including editing/monitoring series with indigenous actors (Reservation Dogs, Resident Alien, Rutherford Falls) where this hasn't ever been an issue, particularly noting that tribal affiliations aren't mentioned on any of the other three, or their related articles. Regardless, the lead is supposed to be a brief overview of the article content, so it's not unusual to save some content for the article body itself. TheDoctorWho (talk) 16:26, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

That's an oversight that they aren't mentioned elsewhere. Usually a tribal affiliation is the most important information about a Native person after their name. Yuchitown (talk) 20:53, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

With a combined 2,300 edits and 10 million page views across the last four years, I personally wouldn't call that an "oversight." I would be more likely to say that no other editor/reader thinks such information is necessary. TheDoctorWho (talk) 21:05, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

I agree with you that there aren't enough Native American Wikipedia editors or editors with backgrounds in Native American studies to adequately update all Native topics, but those of here do the best that we can to fill in the gaps. Luckily, Reservation Dogs and Rutherford Falls already does have tribal affiliations listed. Yuchitown (talk) 21:02, 12 March 2025 )

I agree with Yuchitown, The Doctor Who, and raised that point when I copy edited your article a week or so ago (which, as you now know, I really liked). By coincidence, that was shortly after it became GA, which I wasn't aware of at the time. As a new member of the Guild of Copy Editors, I picked it from the articles listed by GOCE for c/e work we could take on for its March backlog

Although I was content to simply add just a general mention of Indigenous ancestry for the people connected with making "Deer Lady," I like the idea of going one step further and adding specific ancestry. I was happy to see that's what you did a bit

This information helps readers — not only Native American ones — understand more about the likelihood of authenticity in the plot. Certainly for Native Americans, long voiceless not only politically but also in the performing arts, it is also a source of pride.

Perhaps I should add that I have no tribal connections myself but I do have deep lifelong appreciation for many Native American insights and wisdom about nature, spirituality, and life itself.

Peer review

Deer Lady

This article has recently passed GA and undergone a copy-edit. The GA reviewer suggested eventually taking this to FAC, and I would like to. I do however, think that undergoing a peer review first would help improve it further making that process smoother.

Thanks, TheDoctorWho (talk) 03:25, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Comments

• Explain the difference between the creative arts Emmy and the regular ones.
• Paragraph 2 of release and reception seems to short.
• There is no space between the end sentence one and start of two in paragraph 2
• It's not called "Paste Magazine" just "Paste"
• Post-production and music seems like a weird pairing, can you elaborate as to why?
• Paragraph 1 of "Development and writing" links Deer Lady (the character) to the myth, the myth is later discussed. I think the link to the myth should be moved to here
• Plot seems awfully short, at under 200 words its below the limit for a plot on a season article.
• Unclear but is Deerlady a recurring character in this series?

Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 01:56, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! I've fixed everything. I requested an additional copyedit on the plot specifically to cleanup that since I know it may be rough after the expansion. The combination of post-production and music follows the guidelines laid out at MOS:TVPRODUCTION, specifically the part that says "This section should be structured to fit the content and type of article being written. Not all shows will have information on each element. For example, if there is sufficient material about each topic, the section could be divided into subsections as above, or it might be more beneficial to have some material combined (e.g. a "Development and writing" or "Filming and visual effects" section)." I did it here for two reasons particularly; one because it seemed to make more sense to keep the information about Wayuhi together, and it would have been separated if split into two sections, and two because the music section would be exceptionally short on its own. TheDoctorWho (talk) 05:13, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Aoba47

Apologies in advance as I will be unable to do a full review for this peer review, but I wanted to help out where I could. My comments are below:

• I am uncertain about File:Deer Lady Promo.jpg. It is encouraged to keep non-free media usage to a minimum, and I do not think that the image adds anything for the reader that cannot be conveyed through the prose alone. For instance, I do not think that the image really illustrates the 1990s independent film comparisons, particularly for readers who may be familiar with that style of film.
• Is the episode 30 minutes with commercials or without? Just wanted to make sure either way.
• The lead's first paragraph repeats "episode" quite a bit. I get that repetition can be tough to avoid for an article about an episode. You could either combine the second and third sentences, as done in "Janet(s)" to avoid one instance of this.
• It would be helpful to add a brief overview of the series to the lead for unfamiliar readers. A similar topic was actually brought up in this FAC. For other examples, I think that it would beneficial to provide descriptor for Bear and Deer Lady in the lead and for Rez Dogs in the plot summary. It seems the article is more so written for someone who is already familiar with this series, and I believe that would be an issue for a FAC.
• I am not sure that this part, Continuing on from the events of the previous episode, is entirely necessary or adds much. Just another suggestion to cut down on another instance of "episode".
• I am uncertain about this sentence: It received positive reviews from critics, particularly for its production design and depiction of Deer Lady's backstory. The reception section includes a paragraph about the nuns speaking gibberish, but I do not see a focus on either the production design or the Deer Lady's backstory, so this part of the lead seems unsupported to me.
• I think that the first section of the "Release and reception" paragraph would benefit from a clearer structure. I am uncertain about putting the sentence on the episode's release in the same paragraph as the reviews. I think it would be made into its own paragraph and the part on the viewer discretion notice could be brought down, as I view that as more related to the release rather than the production. Just some ideas.
• This part, After still more flashbacks, reads too informal for Wikipedia. It reads more like a commentary on the amount of flashbacks in the episode, which seems out of place in the plot summary.
• I am uncertain about these two sentences: Paste ranked the episode as the second-best of the series. and The Oklahoman ranked Bear meeting Deer Lady as the third-best moment of the entire Reservation Dogs series. While I do understand how the rankings could be important, I just wonder if other information from the reviews could either be added instead or to add to these parts. It may just be a matter of personal preference though.
• I would be consistent if you use authors and publications in the reception section or just the publication.
• The show title should be italicized in the citation titles per WP:CONFORMTITLE. The same goes for putting the episode title in single quotation marks.
• This could be a matter of personal preference, but for the images in the article, I always think that it is helpful to add the year that these photos were taken. Just provides some additional context in an easier way for readers and lets them know when the photos were taken in relation to when this episode was made and released.
• There are a few instances of punctuation inside of a quote, like with "challenge to find a median between hopefulness and hopelessness." Punctuation like this should be on the outside of the quotation marks, unless a full sentence is being quoted.

I hope that these comments are helpful and will encourage other people to participate in this peer review. I know that the peer review process can be very hit-and-miss. This episode talks about an important subject matter, and I respect all of the work and time that you put into this article. Aoba47 (talk) 00:21, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

@Aoba47: Thank you for your comments, I appreciate this a lot! I can confirm that the 30 minutes is without commercials (since this is a streaming show the run times are a little more flexible). I've addressed most everything else and I think it definitely improved a lot. I'll put this through for another pass from GOCE before I take it to FAC to hopefully cleanup any of the text that I modified a bit. TheDoctorWho (talk) 04:36, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

I am glad that I was able to help. Best of luck with the future FAC. I will be more than happy to do a more proper review at that time. I have always a great experience with the GOCE, and it is a good idea to have another perspective on things. I hope you are having a great end to your week! Aoba47 (talk) 22:39, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

Query

@TheDoctorWho: It has been over a month since the last comment on this PR. Are you still interested in receiving comments? If so, I suggest asking for comments at the Wikiprojects attached to this article and reviewing other PRs and FACs. If not, can you close this? Z1720 (talk) 14:06, 21 May 2025 (UTC)