Talk:Charlie Suff

Charlie Suff has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: May 6, 2025. (Reviewed version).

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GA review

Passed. IAWW (talk) 07:34, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Charlie Suff/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk · contribs) 00:10, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: It is a wonderful world (talk · contribs) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Time to return the favour after you reviewed an uncountable number of my GAs! I know nothing about acting, so I'm looking forward to learning! IAWW (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @DaniloDaysOfOurLives, comments are below. I'll wait for those concerns to be addressed before continuing. IAWW (talk) 12:18, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Prose (Criteria 1a, 1b, 4) clock

Resolved points

He then performed in other plays, such as Lemons Lemons Lemons Lemons Lemons in 2019. Suff has also appeared in various short films and other productions, including a play he wrote during the COVID-19 pandemic,: This should be condensed into one short sentence. "Lemons Lemons Lemons Lemons" and his pandemic play are not notable enough for the lead, because they are only sourced to a review and an in passing mention on a trivia article. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No sources on his birth date? IAWW (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

He had a passion for performing from a young age, which he described as: Can be condensed to "He described his passion for performing as" for conciseness. "He had a passion for performing from a young age" has a slight hint of being promotional without imparting real information. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

one of whom he still lives with: A bit closely paraphrased. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

He enjoyed his time there: This is sourced to an article by the school, while Suff was there. First, the source is going to be biased to keep the good things he says about the school and remove the bad things, and second, I very much doubt Suff would say anything bad about the school while he was still at the school, to the school itself. I think this should be cut as it doesn't really impart real information. The second half of the sentence can be kept because it is way more specific. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Suff performed in various of the Bristol Old Vic's theatre productions: "various of" is grammatically incorrect IAWW (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

He was born and grew up in Brighton and later studied Performing Arts at East Sussex College. He then trained at the Bristol Old Vic Theatre School, where he appeared in various theatre productions. He then... So many "He"s and "He then"s makes this rather monotonous. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Consider archiving all references to prevent link rot. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

which led to him discovering the stage to channel his: A bit WP:EDITORIALized IAWW (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Looks good :)

Early and personal life

[1] and [2] are used twice in a row, the first instances of each can be removed. IAWW (talk) 10:50, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Career

noting how Johnny was still linked to the soap and the "iconic" Queen Victoria pub despite not having appeared since 2018: Opinion – "noting" implies it was not an opinion. IAWW (talk) 10:54, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Suff was also involved in an episode which featured a guest appearance from singer Olly Alexander before he represented the United Kingdom in the Eurovision Song Contest 2024: A bit of excessive detail, I'm sure Suff was involved in lots of episodes, why is this one especially notable? IAWW (talk) 10:54, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

the !"The Six" storyline: Is there meant to be an ! here? IAWW (talk) 10:54, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

due to working with the female cast members involved: What was so special about the female cast members? IAWW (talk) 10:54, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

it showed how Johnny's character had changed: How did it change, and what is "it" referring to here? IAWW (talk) 10:54, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Filmography

Looks good :)

Theatre

This is beyond GA, but why are the sources included differently in the Filmography and Theatre sections? IAWW (talk) 10:50, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This is because a lot of the sources for "Theatre" are the same ones, so it would be repeating the same ref again and again, whereas filmography has more separate ones. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 00:53, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ah okay fair enough :) IAWW (talk) 07:30, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Awards and nominations

Looks good :)

Sources clock

Health/formatting (Criterion 2a) Y

Reliability (Criterion 2b) clock

Mostly online news. There are a few weak sources:

"the up coming" – very small news publication. Reliability is unclear, however it is used in this article extremely sparingly, and I think this is quite an uncontroversial subject matter so there is no reason for them to lie.
The Daily Mirror is a tabloid. Biographies of living persons articles must not cite tabloid journalism (WP:BLPRS). All references to the Mirror must be removed.
Creative Artists Management appears to be Suff's agency, so I think this can be classified as a self-published source. Per WP:ABOUTSELF, these can be used as sources on themselves with some restrictions. The use of this source falls in these restrictions so there are no issues here.
[10] is not sufficiently reliable. The video is used as part of [2] though, so it can just be cut. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Spot check (Criteria 2b, 2c, 2d) clock

Spot check numbers based on this version:

[1a, b]: Y

[2a]: Y

[12c]: Y

[22]: Y

Copyvio (Criterion 2d) Y

Earwig finds nothing except direct quotes. The sources are almost all online, so it is very unlikely it missed anything.

Scope (Criteria 3a, 3b) clock

From the beginning of the career section up until "The following year, Suff portrayed Luke Jones in the first episode of the British crime drama Grace", the only reliable secondary sources are:

Two references to a trivia news article
A review of a production he was involved in, in a small theatre news/review site

Because most of this section has not been published by reliable secondary sources, I think it is insufficiently notable for inclusion (WP:N), it therefore is unnecessary detail and violates GA criterion 3b. I believe it should be condensed into a sentence or two to maintain broadness. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@DaniloDaysOfOurLives Thanks for condensing, I don't think it is condensed nearly enough yet unfortunately. I think it needs to be condensed to one or two sentences to not go into unnecessary detail per the argument above. Note I did get a second opinion on this, just to make sure I wasn't being unnecessarily barbaric. It's painful removing your own work, but such is the way of Wikipedia... I have been though it before myself when I had to cut Matthew Webb in half. That was painful at the time. IAWW (talk) 20:26, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@It is a wonderful world: I have cut down further. It was painful (hate cutting stuff!) but I hope it is okay now... DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 23:02, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Much better. IAWW (talk) 10:53, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Stable (Criterion 5) Y

Media Y

Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be an image of him.

Tags (Criterion 6a) Y

Captions (Criterion 6b) Y

Suggestions (not needed for GA promotion)

In 2021, Suff portrayed Luke Jones in the first episode of the British crime drama Grace. In 2022, Suff played Andy in the film The Modern Way. That same year, he appeared as Jason in the short film Never Has a Man. In 2023, Suff guest starred in the premiere episode of the eighth series of the British ITV detective drama Granchester as a thug named Tommy Wilson. Suff also appeared in the short films Fantoma and Modern Love: When writing encyclopedic articles, listing facts like this isn't the goal. Facts should be given context – what were these characters notable for? What was it like for him acting them? What are the shows about? Otherwise, you end up repeating primary sources rather than a new tertiary source, which is what Wikipedia is intended to be. This is why Wikipedia generally prefers secondary sourcing. This problem is not severe enough in this article to impede on the GA criteria though, but it is something you should know when writing high quality articles! If something cannot be given context, it is generally not notable or should just contained in a table. IAWW (talk) 10:55, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Let me know if you find this feedback understandable. IAWW (talk) 10:55, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I understand, I was just trying to make the career section more comprehensive so it wasn't missing big chunks of his career. That is why I found it so difficult to cut the stuff above that you recommended as it included a couple of his opinions of researching the roles etc. Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 00:58, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Johnny is a complex character who has been through so much, which I can't wait to explore. I've found EastEnders to be the most kind and loving space to work in, and I already feel like one of the family".: MOS:LQ IAWW (talk) 10:55, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hey @It is a wonderful world:, thank you so so much for reviewing this! I have archived all the sources that can be archived, condensed the section that you recommended, removed the Daily Mirror sources and did the rest of the changes. Please let me know if there is anything else :D DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 17:14, 3 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @DaniloDaysOfOurLives thanks for your many improvements. I have finished the prose review now. I hope you find my comments helpful. IAWW (talk) 10:52, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hey @It is a wonderful world: Thank you so much for your comments, I have addressed them I believe by clarifying information based on the sources and your questions and other fixes. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 01:04, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@DaniloDaysOfOurLives Nice work, passing now. I'm sure I'll see you around :) IAWW (talk) 07:33, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that Charlie Suff was the third actor to portray Johnny Carter on the BBC soap opera EastEnders in an 11-year period?

Source: [1]

ALT1: ... that actor Charlie Suff is also the lead singer of the band Third Face? Source: [2]
ALT2: ... that actor Charlie Suff became friends with his EastEnders co-star Kellie Bright, who plays his onscreen mother? Source: [3]
Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ridley (Metroid)
Comment: Please let me know if you have any questions or if if you want to tweak anything etc.

Improved to Good Article status by DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.

DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 15:43, 6 May 2025 (UTC).[reply]

I don't see that this article has issues as far as I see, and is in good shape. QPQ has been done. I feel like ALT2 is better, while the ALT1 is talking only about a band that isn't well-known. This seems good to go. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 12:35, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]