Talk:2025 Northern Ireland riots

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On 12 June 2025, it was proposed that this article be moved from 2025 Ballymena riots to 2025 Northern Ireland riots. The result of the discussion was moved.

Requested move 12 June 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jeffrey34555 (talk) 03:05, 19 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

2025 Ballymena riots → 2025 Northern Ireland riots – Per the map and the section on yesterday, this has spread to other cities now, so I think the title should be broadened to reflect this – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 10:05, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking the same thing, I'll move the article now. harrz ^talk 10:26, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind... it was reverted. I think it goes without saying that I support this move per @filelakeshoe. harrz ^talk 13:28, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support per @filelakeshoe. OntheInterwebs (talk) 15:11, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Nearly all news reports are very much focussed on events in Ballymena, with sometimes an add-on "there have also been incidents elsewhere in Nortern Ireland". At least for now, it is so much centred in one place that copy-cat problems are incidental. Kevin McE (talk) 16:25, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is now only international news reports that are reporting exclusively on events in Ballymena, much of which is quickly becoming outdated. National media such as BBC News are reporting on the other incidents in great detail. Indeed, local news has shifted to reporting on the other incidents almost exclusively - with the attack on the Larne leisure centre leading the UTV News for the past two nights, for example. Unionofpeopleni (talk) 11:21, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support Not limited to Ballymena. JJARichardson (talk) 17:21, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support as riots have happened in a number of locations. This is Paul (talk) 18:31, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support as the riots are no longer contained to just Ballymena but several locations across Northern Ireland. GWA88 (talk) 19:28, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support the riots have now spread outside Ballymena and County Antrim. Moondragon21 (talk) 21:31, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's paradoxical to have the article title as "Ballymena" while there is a map displaying over half a dozen other incidents across NI. Indeed, the reporting of local media is now focused on the other incidents, such as at Portadown. Unionofpeopleni (talk) 11:24, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support as these riots, although sparked in Ballymena, quickly spread to other towns by only the second day. Cutlass ^Ciera 23:54, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Romani people were the main target of these riots

Several media sources claim that the main target were Roma people:

(Houses thought to be occupied by migrants from the Roma-community have been attacked and set alight) [1]
(Anti-Roma tensions have erupted with masked gangs roaming streets) [2],
(The homes of people from the Roma Community were targeted and it’s understood that those who had their homes destroyed are currently staying in a hotel in another location.) [3].

Graffiti reading "Roma rapists out" have appeared through Ballymena: [4], [5]

For these reasons this article should include the fact that this community was the most affected by these riots ShadowFizz (talk) 18:59, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Whilst Roma people were targeted, they were not the only target nor the main target, most sources are reporting that it was ethnic minorities as a whole rather than a specific community, with immigrants being targeted. The PSNI's assistant chief constable said "this violence was clearly racially motivated and targeted at our minority ethnic community" (see NBC) and the police have decribed it as targeted at ethnic minorities, with no mention of specific communities (see BBC). Unless the police say that Roma people are being targeted specifically, we should not include it, although I will add a sentence to say that ethnic minorities as a whole were targeted. harrz ^talk 19:21, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to add to this to say that per this BBC article Jon Boucher (head of PSNI) has stated in a press conference that the attacks were racially motivated. No specific minority group was referenced as far as I have seen but people are welcome to add onto this Tribouet (talk) 19:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Loyalist paramilitaries"

"This triggered an anti-immigration protest in Belfast city centre, which descended into a day and night of violence, with further disorder in the next few days. Loyalist paramilitaries were involved but to what extent was never firmly established. The UVF (Ulster Volunteer Force) and UDA (Ulster Defence Association) have long-standing links to extreme far-right groups, and both have a presence in the Ballymena area." [[6]] Zyxrq (talk) 22:42, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Harrz The article says they are involved. But it does not say anything about the extent of the involvement. Zyxrq (talk) 22:47, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You have misunderstood the source, it is referring to last year's protests which came after the Southport stabbing, not the ongoing protests. "The PSNI said there was no evidence of paramilitary involvement in the recent violence in the town, at this stage." harrz ^talk 22:50, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's seems you are correct, my apologies. Zyxrq (talk) 22:53, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No worries! Have a great day harrz ^talk 23:00, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

While not exactly the same as the above, I have added some content highlighting the links to loyalist groups (according to the Committee on the Administration of Justice - I included the PSNI denial). I'm aware the content may be controversial, so just putting here for reference. Happy to tweak any wording if necessary. GnocchiFan (talk) 20:09, 15 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This is a Pogrom by definition not only a riot.

‘Ballymena Pogrom’as title for factuality and clarity.

Pogrom: Pogrom is a Russian word meaning “to wreak havoc, to demolish violently.” Livsane (talk) 14:15, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide reliable sources describing it as such. Cutlass ^Ciera 00:12, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Cutlass: I've added the PSNI statement which uses similar language, with attribution. Is this OK? GnocchiFan (talk) 15:23, 15 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This is a primary source (as the PSNI is describing their own actions) and should be taken with caution. I also think this statement is a way for the PSNI to try to save grace. I don't see anyone else besides law enforcement and unreliable sources using this word and personally I would remove it. Cutlass ^Ciera 16:56, 15 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The event is a case of rioting, but the goal of the rioters is clearly a Pogrom. No Turkish media during the Istanbul Pogrom exclusively used the word Pogrom.

Also we can say that the Pogrom was not prevented as the police say since large number of Balkan immigrants left or are thinking of leaving. Livsane (talk) 11:28, 18 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Istanbul pogrom in similar vein. Attacks on houses, shops etc. owned by the minority. Deaths and injuries are similarly low, but the result is mass migration out of the city by minorities. Livsane (talk) 11:31, 18 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Distinction between Romanian and Romani

I feel like this article should probably mention that there's a difference between Romanians and Romani people Lazarbeem (talk) 17:27, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It should be specified that the 2 minors accused of s.a. are Roma people from Romania, and that those riots targeted mostly their community. ShadowFizz (talk) 08:36, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It’s important to mention that despite the accused being of Romani origin the targeting has not being mostly their community, but Balkan people with no discrimination. There are countless news sources that describe this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3e5ljx2wjlo.amp Livsane (talk) 09:34, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

ShadowFizz, do you have a source for this claim? Because I haven't seen anything which says the accused were Romani. harrz ^talk 11:25, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There are some articles claiming that the accused were Romanian Roma [7] [8] and the fact that the rioters targeted mostly houses belonging to people from the Roma community is a clear indication that the accused were from that community as well. Also like said before graffiti reading "Roma rapists out" have appeared through Ballymena [9], which clearly demonstrates the ethnic background of the accused. ShadowFizz (talk) 12:34, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Neither of those sources are particularly reliable, and since the police haven't said that the accused were from the Roma community we can’t add mere speculation to the article. Also, like Livsane said, it seems like it has been Balkan people that have been targeted, not just Romanis. As for the graffiti, a mention of that can be added to the article but we can't use that as the only evidence for Romas being the sole target of these riots. harrz ^talk 12:47, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is true that not only the Roma were targeted by those riots, since even other immigrant groups like Filipinos had to flee the town [10], but the Roma were the main target.

The graffiti are not the only evidence of that. Well-enstablished newspapers like The Daily Telegraph writes that "Anti-Roma tensions have erupted with masked gangs roaming streets" [11],

Another article writes: "Police have come under attack from violent mobs throwing firebombs, bottles and rocks after demonstrations against Roma residents escalated. Cultural tensions were already high, with locals voicing their objections to the influx of Roma into their communities, even before it was reported that a teenage girl from Ballymena had allegedly suffered a sexual assault at the hands of two teenage Roma boys."[12].

The Guardian claims that "Local Facebook groups with links to the far right are asking for addresses to hit – Roma people are the main target of their ire."[13]. ShadowFizz (talk) 09:56, 15 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Riots seem to have ended

I have been following the coverage of these riots since they started and it appears they have ended. I don't see any coverage for any type of violent disorder last night or tonight. Would it be appropriate to add this yet, or is it too soon? Cutlass ^Ciera 00:42, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Whilst the disorder has definitely died down, I would say it is too soon to say it has ended for certain. There have still been some sporadic incidents over the past couple days, and there's a chance of a flare-up soon. Until it is declared finished by sources or there has been no coverage for days we should stay away from saying they have ended. harrz ^talk 16:07, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]