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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 30 May 2025 [1].

Roy Marshall

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Nominator(s): AA (talk) 22:46, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the West Indian cricketer Roy Edwin Marshall, who played international cricket for the West Indies in a brief Test career in the early 1950s, but is probably better known for his 19-year association with Hampshire in English county cricket. An attacking opening batsman, he was a member of Hampshire's 1961 County Championship winning team and would captain Hampshire from 1966 to 1970. He made 504 first-class appearances for Hampshire and scored 30,303 runs, a total that only one other has surpassed. A very important figure in the history of Hampshire cricket. Curiously, he was appointed chairman at Somerset in the late 1980s (having moved to the county some years prior), following the fallout of the 'Somerset Revolution' which had seen the departure of Ian Botham and Viv Richards. I have worked extensively on this article over the last few months. It was at peer review for nearly 3 weeks, but had no comments, and I have posted on the Cricket Project page for feedback, and it has had some edits from project members. Hopefully it is now at FA level. Any feedback welcome. Cheers, AA (talk) 22:46, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Support from Tim riley

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Since the splendid Sarastro1 vanished into semi-retirement I can't think when I last enjoyed a cricket FAC as much as this. I have a few very minor quibbles, none of which affect my support:

  • "Whilst still qualifying to play for Hampshire in 1954, Marshall made four first-class appearances" – the meaning is unclear. I read this as meaning not "although he still qualified" but "while he was waiting to qualify", and if the latter is what you mean I suggest you say so.
    • Done. I have (hopefully!) made it a little clearer that he was awaiting his County Championship qualification and the matches he played in were 'friendlies'. Though, I remain a little unsure on my wording here! AA (talk) 21:49, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Come the end of the season" – as a Lancastrian I might well say "come the end of the season..." but it looks a touch colloquial for an encyclopedia article, and perhaps "by" rather than "come" might be more suitable.
  • "with a team led by the Duke of Norfolk" – this conjures up visions of His portly Grace, padded up, leading the team onto the field, at which the mind boggles. Perhaps "managed by", "directed by" or some such?
    • Done. Now that is some vision! I'm almost surprised he never played, many aristocrats of the day, portly and old, with limited cricketing talents did (much to the hindrance of their teams). I have substituted in "managed by". AA (talk) 21:49, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "what Sandiford considered to be the most reliable opening partnership in county cricket" – in its day or of all time?
  • "the three first-class matches that comprised the tour" – in the King's English the tour comprised the three matches, rather than vice versa. Perhaps "constituted"?
  • "As a result, most of the Hampshire batsmen struggled, however, Marshall was the exception" – a stronger stop than a comma needed before "however".

I greatly enjoyed this article, which seems to me to meet all the FA criteria, and I am happy to record my support. I hope we shall see more cricket articles here from AssociateAffiliate. Tim riley talk 12:53, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks Tim riley for your kind words and feedback :) I'm glad you enjoyed the article, and thank you for the support. I have a few more in the works, so watch this space! AA (talk) 21:24, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Good. Well, kindly ping me when you go to PR or FAC with any more cricket articles. Tim riley talk 14:37, 27 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

SC

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Comments to follow - SchroCat (talk) 08:09, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just a few minor points from me:

  • "However, on debut": the 'however' doesn't add anything to the party here and could/should be expunged
  • Why the different approach in "North v South and The Rest versus Surrey"?
    • Done. I guess habit of referring to the North v South matches using their classic naming, whereas matches between The Rest and Surrey were not called "The Rest v Surrey". I was a little conflicted on how to amend that. "The Rest v Surrey" does't sound right, and sounds a little colloquial. So I have amended all to "North versus South" and "The Rest versus Surrey". AA (talk) 22:36, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "gaining 26 batting bonus points": it may be worth adding in a footnote to explain both the concept of 'batting points' and the rules under which they would be gained
    • Done... ish? I have briefly explained the concept of "batting points", but I cannot find an exact reference for that explanation which is relevant to 1959 (as batting bonus points have changed throughout the decades, and today's system is very different to that of 1959). I have also explained the rules of bonus batting points in 1959, which is referenced. AA (talk) 22:36, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I hope these help! - Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 04:05, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for your comments. Please find my responses/actions above. Cheers :) AA (talk) 22:38, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator note

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This has been open for over four weeks and been inactive for the better part of two weeks. I have added it to Urgents, but unless it receives several additional in depth reviews and support over the next week or so I am afraid that it is going to time out. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 19:15, 19 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support from UC

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Commenting after a request on my Talk page, and as someone without a particularly strong knowledge of cricket.

  • Lots of "Marshall"s in the opening paragraph -- in general, I would look to state his name on first mention in the paragraph, then go for "he" unless we shift grammatical subject. I notice that this seems to be the approach adopted from the second paragraph onwards.
  • 30,303 runs, a total for the county that is only surpassed by Phil Mead.: I would try to make the chronology clearer here -- to say that he ended up with Hampshire's second-highest total, behind Phil Mead, who played in the first third of the C20th (or however you want to do it).
    • Done. How's this read? For Hampshire, he made 504 first-class appearances and scored 30,303 runs, a total for the county that is only surpassed by Phil Mead, who played for Hampshire between 1905 and 1936.
  • chairman of the Somerset committee: Somerset Cricket Club? The link is otherwise a bit of an Easter egg: it sounds as if he had some sort of job in local government.
    • Done. Now reads "Somerset County Cricket Club", so he's now not potentially the chairman of the cricket club in Bermuda, or a local councillor! AA (talk) 17:27, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • he was able to partake in the First Division of the National Men's League: I guess that's the top tier of Barbardian domestic competition? It would be good to spell that out if so (cf. the First Division in English football, which wasn't always the highest level).
    • Done. I have expanded the sentence to reflect this... however, it is unreferenced. Finding a reference which states it is the highest level of club cricket on the island is going to be from a very niche source, or totally non-existent. I've had a thorough look for one in the usual places! AA (talk) 20:59, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Hm: is there no "Bluffer's Guide to Barbardian Cricket", or any kind of cricket encyclopaedia, that sets out how domestic competition works in Barbados? UndercoverClassicist T·C 05:37, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll post on the WP:CRIC talkpage and see if anyone has any books lying about! AA (talk) 22:35, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I've found the following reference, might be a little vague! [2] AA (talk) 22:47, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I think it's explicit enough: The more than century-old First division will now be called the Elite division ... "We have renamed our two top divisions. What was our First division is now the Elite division ... the winner of the First automatically goes up into the Elite division ... The Elite (division) should be the cream of the crop". UndercoverClassicist T·C 05:36, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorted :D AA (talk) 08:01, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • His success as a batsman for Lodge: The Lodge?
  • He did not appear for Barbados again until 1949, playing in the interim for the elite Wanderers Club. Strong performances in club cricket led to his recall to the Barbadian team in 1949: can do without the repetition here.
  • In the second match, he made a second century (110 runs), which was also complemented by a half century: do we know how many he got in the second innings?
  • This earned him selection to the West Indian team for their tour of England in 1950, where he was chosen as a third opening batsman behind the Jamaican Allan Rae and the Trinidadian Jeff Stollmeyer; at 20 years of age, he was the youngest member of the sixteen-man squad: suggest a full stop after Stollmeyer, for rythym and readability.
  • did not feature in the 2nd Test. He returned to play in the 3rd Test at Adelaide, where a pulled muscle in his leg saw him bat with a runner for over 100 minutes. The injury subsequently kept him out of the 4th and 5th Tests: not convinced about the numerals/capitalisation on "2nd Test" etc -- is this how good sources do it?
    • Comment. It does seem the commonly done thing. ESPNcricinfo and CricketArchive both go down the numbers route, as do most newspapers and other sports media, i.e. Sky Sports. AA (talk) 19:19, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • against the touring Indians in January 1953: I would rephrase this: "the touring Indians" is a little informal and makes me think of a Native American version of the Harlem Globetrotters.
    Much better. UndercoverClassicist T·C 22:23, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Barbados' only innings: MOS:' prefers Barbados's for this and similar.
  • Keith Sandiford opined that had he not decided to quit Test cricket at his peak: this is phrased like it's a contemporary judgement: Sandiford would have been 17 at the time, so I'm not sure we would have paid his opinion too much notice?

More to follow. Looking pretty good so far; these are, on the whole, pretty small nit-picks. UndercoverClassicist T·C 21:16, 19 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Marshall featured in four 'friendly' first-class matches.: I would lose the scare quotes here: "friendly" has a well-known meaning in sport (that it wasn't considered part of a proper competition), but readers who don't know that aren't going to be helped towards it by a vague bit of punctuation.
  • He played twice for the Commonwealth XI, with one match apiece for Hampshire and the South,: this sounds as if he played one match for the Commonwealth XI while playing for Hampshire, and the other while playing for the South. I don't think that's right?
    • Comment. Yes, this part really screwed with my head when writing it, and no matter which way I worded it, it still bothered me. How does it read now? I could must simply omit the matches, or shorten it to mention one of the four was for Hampshire against the touring Pakistanis? AA (talk) 18:43, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    New framing works well. UndercoverClassicist T·C 05:36, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Marshall completed his qualification period ahead of the 1955 season, making him eligible to play in the 1955 County Championship.: what is/was a qualification period, and how do you complete one?
  • on what was described as a "responsive strip": is it known who gave it that description?
    • Comment. It would appear this is the later description of Sandiford in Roy Edwin Marshall: His Record Innings-by-Innings (2005). Quite knows where he got it from! On the same note, I wonder if I should link "strip" to Cricket pitch... then again, there are several uses of pitch before I could link. And I can't change "strip" as it is a direct quote... hmm! AA (talk) 19:26, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Following the 1956 season, Marshall toured Jamaica with a team managed by the Duke of Norfolk.: I might clarify that this was the made-up "Duke of Norfolk's XI", rather than a national or country team.
    I think that would be a very elegant way of doing it. UndercoverClassicist T·C 05:36, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • including 273 runs in the three first-class fixtures against Jamaica: on the same note -- were these strictly considered first-class matches?
  • He also played two innings' of note against Surrey: no apostrophe.
  • These scores were all the more remarkable, considering Hampshire were dismissed for 120 in their first innings and 153 in their second.: I think this section veers slightly onto the wrong side of sportswriting versus encyclopaedia writing: this clause in particular stands out. See also He also played two innings of note and He made a number of eye-catching performances: we don't express opinions in Wikipedia's voice, though we can faithfully report opinions expressed at the time.
    • Comment. I've had a shot at rewording this: "In the 1957 season, he made an attacking century (107 runs) made in 66 minutes against Nottinghamshire in June; this was the fastest century by a Hampshire batsman since 1927. Later in the season against Surrey, he contributed an attacking 56 runs in Hampshire's first innings and 110 runs, made in 111 minutes, in their second. These scores were made as Hampshire were dismissed for 120 in their first innings and 153 in their second." Is this veering toward more encyclopaedic? AA (talk) 19:47, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I think so. UndercoverClassicist T·C 21:21, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • a tendency to give his wicket away when set: this is firmly in cricketer-ese, and might benefit from a translation.
    Better, but can we rephrase "give his wicket away" accurately and concisely? Not a crisis if not. UndercoverClassicist T·C 22:22, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment. I've rephrashed to read: ...a tendency to be dismissed when well established in his innings." AA (talk) 22:05, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd probably change that back: it gives the opposite impression (what we had suggested that he would start off well, then do something silly and get out; what we now have suggests that it was rare for him to get out without first scoring some runs). "Be dismissed" probably isn't any clearer, I don't think. UndercoverClassicist T·C 05:34, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment. It now reads "Sandiford noted that he was hampered throughout it by having a tendency to be give away his wicket when well established in his innings." Not sure of another way to word it "giving away his wicket" without it becoming too convoluted, i.e. "he had a tendency to give his wicket away through unforced errors when well established in his innings". Bit wordy? AA (talk) 08:14, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Could do that: I think both approaches have their appeals and downsides. What we have works, I think. UndercoverClassicist T·C 20:13, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed. My concern with the latter reword is it sorta strays in OR territory. I can assume he would be dismissed through an unforced error (i.e. trying to smack Jim Laker for 6 when there was no need!), but the source doesn't specifically state that as the reason. For all we know, a pigeon or two could have distracted him :D AA (talk) 08:19, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • the season ending North versus South and The Rest versus Surrey fixtures.: hyphenate "season-ending", and the two match names ("North-versus-South").
  • He was an instrumental part of Hampshire's historic maiden County Championship title in 1961: cut historic; we've already said that it was their first (though I might be tempted to change maiden to say that in plain language; "maiden" is another bit of cricketer-ese that doesn't get that much use outside sport and ships).
  • He would tour South Africa: for simplicity, and because we use a simple past in the next clause, better as he toured.
  • he defied the potent bowling of Tom Cartwright and Albert Wright: again, I think we're getting a bit excited with the tone.
    More context added by noting the number of wickets the pair took in the match. AA (talk) 16:46, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • It was announced in October 1965 that Marshall would be succeeding the retiring Colin Ingleby-Mackenzie as Hampshire captain, thus becoming the first professional to hold the post: I don't know if there's space anywhere in the article, probably earlier, to outline the gentlemen/players distinction and so to give readers a sense of what's going on beneath this sentence?
    • Done. I have explained briefly the difference between Gentlemen and Players, and what criteria was required to represent either team: "He took part in the season ending Scarborough Festival, playing in the Gentlemen v Players match; as a paid professional he represented the Players, in contrast to unpaid amatuers who played for the Gentlemen. Later on, I have explained that Hampshire captains were traditionally amatuers, before the abolition of amatuerism in 1962: "Prior to his appointment, the captaincy had traditionally been held by a player with amatuer status. With the abolition of amatuer status by the MCC in 1962, the role of captain would be inherited by a professional.". How do they read? AA (talk) 21:51, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    NB spelling: amateur. Blame the French. UndercoverClassicist T·C 22:21, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • being raised on hard concrete and matting pitches at his father's plantation: MOS:IDIOM: he wasn't raised on them; he learned to play cricket on them.
    • Done. Have reworded to say "... a trait he put down to learning to play on hard concrete and matting pitches at his father's plantation." AA (talk) 18:47, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • later in his career, particularly when he began to become afflicted with arthritis: I'm surprised we're just learning about this now, not in the section on his career -- particularly as he dropped so starkly in form in his later years. When did this start to happen?
    • Comment. I did wonder where to put this myself. Sandiford specifically mentions that he became afflicted later in his career, though puts no definitive time on when. So was unsure exactly where it would have been prudent to insert that into the relevant section of his career, without it becoming OR. AA (talk) 20:48, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    That's a fair one. I think we may have to stick with what we have. UndercoverClassicist T·C 05:35, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • to occasionally bowl medium pace and leg break deliveries: hyphenate both compound modifiers.
  • Such was his ability as an off break bowler: hyphen.

More to follow. UndercoverClassicist T·C 05:56, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@UndercoverClassicist please find above my responses :) AA (talk) 21:52, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Such was his ability as an off-break bowler early in his career, that A. A. Thomson: no comma here in English.
  • He was considered by Sandiford to have been: neater and simpler as "Sandiford considered him"? This will need a minor tweak to the following clause.
  • which contrasted to the manner in which he batted: contrasted with
    • Done. Amended. 21:16, 21 May 2025 (UTC)
  • but also noted that his tactical knowledge and insights should have made him a better captain.: noted should be reworked into a verb that doesn't endorse the conclusion, per MOS:SAID, but this whole thing seems a bit convoluted, and it's hard for me to work out what Wisden are actually saying. What's the point here -- that he was pretty rubbish despite being a good tactician? Are they saying that he didn't use his tactical knowledge while captaining?
    • Comment. I think that is what they are alluding to; despite having the skills, he did not put them to use - largely down to his cautious and "negative" captaincy. I've had a go at rewording it as I think it is an important point: "Wisden remarked how his "very keen cricket brain and strong opinions" added to the depth of his captaincy, but also commented how the tactical knowledge and insights that he possessed should have contributed towards him being a more successful captain." What are your thoughts?! AA (talk) 22:34, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    What did Wisden actually say, here? UndercoverClassicist T·C 05:33, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Wisden says: "He had the tactical knowledge and insights that should have made him a slightly better captain". AA (talk) 08:07, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd be tempted to express that as words to the effect that his overall performance as a captain did not live up to the high level of tactical knowledge and insight he showed, or that he was a mediocre/poor captain despite his tactical knowledge and insight. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:12, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I've had a little reword, but tried not to stray toward what might be perceived as me offering an opinion: "Wisden remarked how his "very keen cricket brain and strong opinions" added to the depth of his captaincy, but commented that despite the tactical knowledge and insights that he possessed, these did not translate into success during his captaincy". AA (talk) 08:31, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The grammar of this isn't quite right: I've had a chew on it and I think the easiest fix is just to stick a comma before despite, assuming that "these" is his keen cricket brain and strong opinions. If we mean that it's his knowledge and insights, we need to do a bigger rephrase -- perhaps "he possessed tactical knowledge and insights, but these..." UndercoverClassicist T·C 20:12, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I've had another reword! Wisden remarked how his "very keen cricket brain and strong opinions" added to the depth of his captaincy, but observed that despite possessing tactical knowledge and insights, these qualities did not ultimately lead to a successful tenure as captain. AA (talk) 08:10, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • In terms of runs-scored: no hyphen.
  • For Hampshire, his 30,303 first-class runs is a total only surpassed by Phil Mead's 48,892.: per MOS:LEAD, we should now give the dates here too.
    • Done. Reworded and dates no inserted to read: "For Hampshire, his 30,303 first-class runs are only surpassed by the 48,892 runs made by Phil Mead, who played for Hampshire between 1905 and 1936." AA (talk) 21:16, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hampshire's Wisden Cricketers of the Year: italics on Wisden?
  • Note 88 (Hill) is local news, which wouldn't normally be a HQRS, and is cited with two others on the name, date and location of Marshall's pub: does it say anything that they don't? I think we can wear it for a trivial detail but should look to remove/upgrade if it adds no value.
  • ISBNs are formatted inconsistently: use {{subst:format ISBN|9780000000000}} to hyphenate, and give either 10 or 13 digits depending on what's printed on the book (generally, if published before 2007, that's 10, otherwise it's 13).
  • Press University of the West Indies is, I think, "University of the West Indies Press".
  • Any chance of some more images between the portrait and the pub -- cricket grounds where he played, notable players he played with, etc?
    • Comment. It would be nice! Relevant images and ones that don't stray into pictorial recentism seem few and far between. I had wanted to put a picture of The Lodge School and The Gabba (where he made his Test debut) in the first section, but no picture of his school exists. And there are no photos of the Gabba dating from when it looked very different in 1951 (putting a picture of the modern Gabba seems inappropriate). He formed a notable opening partnership with Jimmy Gray – however, no fair use images of Gray exist. Same with Colin Ingleby-Mackenzie, whom he succeeded as captain. A bit of a photographic black hole I'm afraid :( AA (talk) 21:56, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's my lot on a first pass. In general, where you've replied above and I haven't, I don't think any further action is needed: I'll go through and make sure I've replied where that's not the case. It's a very well-written article and it looks as though you've done a good job of bringing out the story of someone who isn't particularly well documented or widely known. UndercoverClassicist T·C 05:50, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers and many thanks for your review, appreciated. I've actioned some more of your comments (and one I forgot). Nice to have expanded an article on arguably one of the lesser-known figures of the game, but one who was an extremely important figure, particularly in county cricket and the history of Hampshire cricket. AA (talk) 22:50, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from MS

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Lead

I've read through the Lead and Later life, death and legacy sections and will review the Cricket section later. MSincccc (talk) 11:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lead
Cricket
  • However, Sandiford noted that he was hampered throughout it by having a tendency to be give away his wicket when well established in his innings. A typo in this sentence. ("to be give away...")
  • “making him eligible to play in the 1955 County Championship” → just “making him eligible for the County Championship” (avoid repetition)
  • "Due to the qualification rules of the time, that dictated"→"Due to the qualification rules of the time, which required a player to be resident..." ('Which required' is standard non-restrictive relative clause usage in British English).
  • whilst against Warwickshire he defied the bowling of Tom Cartwright and Albert Wright who had taken bwtween them 15 wickets in the match A typo in this sentence.
  • Prior to his appointment, the captaincy had traditionally been held by a player with amatuer status. amatuer→amateur
  • With the abolition of amatuer status by the MCC in 1962 amatuer→amateur
  • Marshall wore thick glasses throughout the entirety of his career. Could the phrase "the entirety of" be dropped from this sentence?

That's all from me. MSincccc (talk) 06:04, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for your comments. Please find above my responses! AA (talk) 08:20, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have no further suggestions. Support. MSincccc (talk) 10:49, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Source review from Eddie - Pass

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Reliability

  • What makes bcacricket.org a high quality reliable source?
  • Same with www.utilitabowl.com?
  • cricketweb.net?
Also, might be better to use the publisher not the www. name in the citation for these three

Formatting

Otherwise, looks good to me on a first pass. Eddie891 Talk Work 16:15, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments :) Please find above my responses! AA (talk) 16:45, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I'm satisfied. Eddie891 Talk Work 10:36, 27 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comments

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  • " Barbadian cricketer who played in four Test matches for the West Indies and who had an extensive domestic career with Hampshire in English county cricket." Suggest deleting the second "who".
    • Done. Agree, the second "who" is unnecessary.
  • "for whom he played Test cricket between". Why the upper-case T?
    • Comment. "Test" is always capitalised. Wisden and any reputable publication will always use "Test" over "test". The ICC and MCC also term it as "Test". AA (talk) 20:24, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "he was selected to play for the West Indian representative team, for whom he played Test cricket". It may be correct, but "whom" when referring to an institution looks odd to me.
  • "he was selected to play for the West Indian representative team, for whom he played Test cricket". Is there a way of phrasing this without saying that he played cricket for the Windies twice in one sentence?
  • "After several strong performances for Barbados in West Indian domestic cricket, he was selected to play for the West Indian representative team, for whom he played Test cricket between November 1951 and February 1952, playing two matches apiece against Australia and New Zealand." Lastly, that's a heck of a sentence. Perhaps break it somewhere?
    • Done. I've reworded and broken the sentence up. How does this read: "After several strong performances for Barbados in West Indian domestic cricket, he was selected in the West Indian representative team. He played Test cricket between November 1951 and February 1952, making two appearances apiece against Australia and New Zealand."?
  • "he established himself as Jimmy Gray's opening partner." Could Jimmy Gray be introduced. (Or omitted.)
    • Comment. His partnership with Gray is probably too important a part of the narrative to be omitted from the lede. And would talking about Gray more go into too much detail and detract the focus away from Marshall? AA (talk) 20:47, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
How about something like 'he established himself as one of their opening batsman [should we be writing "batter"?], forming a partnership with Jimmy Gray' or similar. Which would keep the emphasis on Marshall and give at least some introduction to Gray. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:02, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I have divided the wider sentence and rewritten the latter half along the lines of your suggestion: He would form a successful opening partnership with Jimmy Gray that spanned over a decade and was considered at the time the strongest in county cricket. I would stick with "batsman" as it is the commonly used term from the era in which he played. AA (talk) 22:27, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the role of captain would be inherited by a professional. He inherited a Hampshire side". Is it possible to avoid "inherited" twice in six words?
  • The phrase "he scored" is inevitably going to crop up a lot, but in "Captaincy and retirement" in a run of five sentences, three start "He scored". Any chance that at least one could be rephrased? Ideally to avoid consecutive sentences starting that way.

Gog the Mild (talk) 21:35, 29 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for your comments. Please find my responses above :) AA (talk) 20:53, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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