Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Dirty Dick/archive1

Dirty Dick

Featured article candidates/Dirty Dick/archive1

Nominator(s): SchroCat (talk) 09:00, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Dirty Dick was the nickname given to a London eccentric from the eighteenth century. A disgustingly dirty man, his hardware shop was so filthy it would attract visitors just to see how bad it really was. He's achieved a form of immortality since his death, firstly as the probable inspiration behind Miss Havisham in Charles Dickens's 1861 novel Great Expectations, and secondly in the pub named after him near Liverpool Street - a favourite drinking hole of mine back in the early 90s when I was a student. Any constructive comments welcome. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:00, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

Recusing to review.

"dressed in a dandified manner, and was given the nickname "the beau of Leadenhall Street". He met Louis XVI of France and attended his coronation; he was a patron of the London pleasure gardens at Ranelagh in Chelsea and Vauxhall in Kennington." Was all of this only prior to his epiphany, or did it continue afterwards?

The sources are not clear, unfortunately. - SchroCat (talk) 10:00, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"as at 2025 the pub is still in operation". Under the same name?
"There are no details about his mother." Should there be a 'known' in there somewhere?
"attended the coronation of Louis XVI". Perhaps tell us when this was?
"who he met". 'whom'? Not that I really care.
"and lived off eighteen pence a day". If this equates to £36 it hardly classes as parsimonious.

I agree, but can only repeat what the sources say! - SchroCat (talk) 10:00, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"the shop at 46 Leadenhall Street." This springs a bit out of no where.

Now introduced a bit further up - SchroCat (talk) 10:00, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"and soon acquired the nickname". "soon"? Soon after what?
"Bentley was also lampooned in verse". "also"?
"There was speculation that the cause of the change in Bentley was because of the death of his fiancée on the eve of their wedding." Was he engaged? And did she die?

Again the sources leave us wanting to now so much more! - SchroCat (talk) 10:00, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lovely. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:52, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks Gog: all tweaked, except where commented upon above. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 10:00, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Tim riley

A few tweaks needed, but nothing important enough to stop me supporting straight away. Gog's comments, above, are very much ad rem, and these are my few additional comments:

"Louis XVI, who he met" – "whom" please.
"Philip Carter, Bentley biographer" – looks a bit odd to me: perhaps "Bentley's biographer"?
Image caption: "Dirty Dick's pub on Bishopsgate" – it really will be sleeve-across-the-windpipe time if you persist, yet again, in inflicting the Americanism "on so-and-so Street" on us rather than the native English "in so-and-so street".

I have to remind myself to put in one example of this just to wind you up each time... - SchroCat (talk) 10:00, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Miss Havisham ...Miss Haversham" – right the first time and wrong the second.

That's my lot. Happy to support. For such a brief (though by no means too brief) an article it is impressively widely sourced, the text is lively and readable, the illustrations admirable. I am happy to support its promotion to FA. (Is it just me who worries a bit about SchroCat's frequent choices of subject?) Tim riley talk 19:46, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's when he starts choosing cheery, optimistic topics that we need to worry I think. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:43, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Well hark who's talking! What's the body count from battle, starvation and disease before and after the Truce of Malestroit? Tim riley talk 20:49, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, it's about a truce. They all promised to stop fighting and went off to Avignon for a very serious chat with the Pope, who was very disappointed with them all. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:09, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cheery and optimistic topics? I can't think of any interesting ones that would hold my attention, to be honest!

Many thanks, Tim, all sorted to your suggestions. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 10:00, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:Nathaniel_Bentley_Sketch.png: what is the author's date of death? Nikkimaria (talk) 05:01, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Nikkimaria, Probably around 1823. He was very active 1815-1823, then there's no more after of his work after that. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 05:06, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support from HAL

I suggest shortening "and it is possible that Bentley's locked dining room was the inspiration for the locked room..." to the more concise "and Bentley's locked dining room may have inspired the locked room..."
It may be BrEng convention, but is another comma needed after "cats" in "contents, including mummified rats and cats"?
"the cause of the change in Bentley was because of the death" - The repetition of cause/because is slightly awkward.

That's all I got. A short but nicely done article. ~ HAL333 05:15, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks Hal: all sorted. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 13:04, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to support. ~ HAL333 16:41, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Much obliged: thank you! - SchroCat (talk) 20:19, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

What makes "Allingham, William (1860). Day and Night Songs; and the Music-Master: A Love Poem. London: Bell and Daldy. OCLC 645113276." and "Wilson, Derek A. (1983). Extraordinary People. London: Pan. ISBN 978-0-3302-8288-8." a reliable source? What's "The European Magazine" and "Household Words"? The linking of IA is a bit inconsistent, e.g this one isn't linked.

Is there anything about either Allingham or Wilson that you think makes them unreliable? Both seem appropriate for the information they are supporting.
"The European Magazine" and "Household Words" are two long-defunct magazines, but the information they are supporting is that two poems existed, which both demonstrate. Household Words has an extra level of notability by being edited by Dickens (which is why it was used, given the connection with Miss Havisham.
The one you’ve linked to is a different edition to the one we cite, which is why I didn’t link it.

As always, many thanks for your review Jo-Jo. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:30, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mostly that I can't find much information about these books (about their authors and publishers) Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 06:02, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

With Allingham, I think the reason you can't find anything is that it's an old and now-defunct company, but it's now part of the reliable publisher Allen & Unwin (see George Bell & Sons for more history). Pan Books has been around since the 1940s, is deemed reliable, and is an imprint of Macmillan Publishers. The late Derek Wilson, who wrote the Pan book, was a respected historian - see here. - SchroCat (talk) 06:17, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from PMC

Signing on! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 15:29, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Co-ords

@FAC coordinators: Is there any chance I could pop in a second nom? It's been open for two weeks, I've got three supports and the image and source reviews are clear on this one. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 13:56, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@SchroCat sure. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 17:09, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That’s great: thanks very much, David. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 17:21, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]