User talk:Rosbif73

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Aircraft accidents and incidents

Hi. I saw your comment at WP:Articles for deletion/FedEx Express Flight 3609 and your removal at Newark Liberty International Airport#Accidents and incidents. I filed WP:Deletion review/Log/2025 March 13#FedEx Express Flight 3609. May I ask you about WP:WikiProject Aviation/Aircraft accidents and incidents and related AfDs? Flatscan (talk) 04:23, 19 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I'll be happy to give my opinion. What specific aspect of AIRCRASH do you want to ask about? Rosbif73 (talk) 06:20, 19 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your quick response.

How much support does AIRCRASH enjoy within WikiProject Aviation and outside it? My impression is that editors forget to cite it rather than direct opposition.
Have you noticed issues with accident AfDs being closed as merge or redirect? I skimmed through recent entries in WP:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Aviation/archive and saw a few incidents whose list items seemed to be excluded by AIRCRASH.
Would the WikiProject members be receptive to advice about AfD considerations? If so, where should I approach them?

Flatscan (talk) 04:27, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, the main problem with AIRCRASH is its scope: it gives guidance as to whether accidents and incidents should be mentioned in articles about airports, airlines and aircraft, but it explicitly should not be used to determine whether a stand-alone article should exist or not and thus shouldn't be cited in AfDs, for which it defers to WP:GNG and WP:EVENT. As a result, the focus of many accident and incident AfDs tends to be whether or not they are run-of-the-mill events that fall under WP:EVENTCRIT #4. AIRCRASH's criteria could be cited for this if it weren't for the exclusion.
As an aside, one point where I disagree with AIRCRASH is that the death of a person of sufficient individual notability to have their own biography page should not in my opinion contribute to the decision to mention an accident in an aviation-focused article (unless the person is notable in an aviation context) – though it should of course be a factor for standalone articles.
I see no inherent problem with merge or redirect closures – provided that they are not used for minor incidents that fail AIRCRASH and thus subsequently get deleted from the target article, as occurred with FedEx Express Flight 3609. I'm not surprised that the closure was endorsed, though, in that DRV aims to review whether the closure was reasonable without rehashing the deletion discussion itself. However, the redirect should probably now be taken to WP:RFD.
I'm not particularly active on the WikiProject per se, but WT:AV would be the best place to contact project members.

Rosbif73 (talk) 07:27, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again for your answers. I will take some time to digest them. Flatscan (talk) 04:22, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Flatscan: FYI I've submitted Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 May 21#FedEx Express Flight 3609. Rosbif73 (talk) 05:57, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the ping and link. I will wait to see if my input is necessary. Flatscan (talk) 04:26, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]