User talk:Noaius Paticus

Welcome!

Hi Noaius Paticus! I noticed your contributions and wanted to welcome you to the Wikipedia community. I hope you like it here and decide to stay.

As you get started, you may find this short tutorial helpful:

Learn more about editing

Alternatively, the contributing to Wikipedia page covers the same topics.

If you have any questions, we have a friendly space where experienced editors can help you here:

Get help at the Teahouse

If you are not sure where to help out, you can find a task here:

Volunteer at the Task Center

Happy editing! jlwoodwa (talk) 22:41, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for welcoming me to the community, or shall I say the user community. I have been heavily on Wikipedia for longer than I can remember - though I can remember other things in my life before then, but I am talking about Wikipedia, not life, - and I feel like I know enough about what goes on to start this part of "The Free Encyclopedia" journey. There is nothing like the website, and there probably never will be. Once again, thanks for the warm welcome. Noaius Paticus (talk) 22:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

May 2024

Hello, I'm Moxy. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at referencing for beginners. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Best come to the talk page about these additions and bring sources Moxy🍁 23:54, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not seeing how Latin names are needed all over..... that said you're free to start a discussion one of the talk page of one of the articles to see what others think. Moxy🍁 23:58, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Moxy, I see that you have some confusion on why I put some Latin names in many different city name articles, and the reason for that is to make the different names of these cities in other languages easily accessible to the reader, and this is, in my mind, better than having to search up on all the different language Wikipedias for their names of the cities, with some of them being in different scripts than the Latin script that English uses. I am starting out with Latin. These were concerns that I had that I am trying to solve for myself, and anyone else on the World Wide Web that is viewing the page. It may seem unnecessary, but it will make it a WHOLE lot easier for people trying to quickly access that information. By the way, greetings to our close brothers up north! In reality, we all enjoy maple syrup as much as you do, and it should really be a part of American culture too, just like what ketchup should be!:D By the way, thank you for giving me suggestions on how to get solutions to the topic that may be beneficial for me. Noaius Paticus (talk) 00:11, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I could DEFINITELY trust you with that +15 years experience on your belt. Noaius Paticus (talk) 00:13, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Also, are you in Pacific, Mountain, Central, Eastern, Atlantic, or Newfoundland Time? I live in the Eastern Time Zone. This may be of importance if we talk later on, and if I'm sleeping or inactive at the moment. Noaius Paticus (talk) 00:17, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

You're going to need to see consensus before you add Latin names everywhere. See WP:Consensus on how you can go about doing that..... Specifically see WP:DISCUSSCONSENSUS.Moxy🍁 00:20, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Were you the one that undid all of the progress I made on that in the past hour? Noaius Paticus (talk) 00:22, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

If you did, you forgot about Aleppo...just saying. Noaius Paticus (talk) 00:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm one of three others who reverted all these editions. Moxy🍁 00:32, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Where should I put the information then? Noaius Paticus (talk) 00:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Pick one of the many talk pages attached to one of the pages you've already edited. Ps best read over WP:3RV..... Don't get blocked before you can explain. Moxy🍁 00:55, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Could I create a new page, or add onto existing pages that are specifically designed, and designated, to house this information? There are pages like these that I have already found and known of. Noaius Paticus (talk) 00:58, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Please do not add or change content without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. Aintabli (talk) 00:19, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

These sources come from the different Wikipedia page titles in other languages. Noaius Paticus (talk) 00:22, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia, especially other language Wikipedias, cannot be used as sources within themselves per WP:CIRCULAR. It would be much better to find a specific source that includes the name you want to add. But I would discourage you from adding remotely relevant names such as the Filipino name for Amman, a city thousands of miles away with little historical connection. It is somewhat justifiable for a full list but not for respective articles for the cities. So, don't repeat edits like this, where you've added a Latin name to a city in the middle of Siberia unless you can prove that there is a significant detail that ties them together.

While writing my response, I've also noticed that you have restored your edits on the List of names of Asian cities in different languages. I urge you to revert yourself as your edits contradict with Wikipedia's core policies of verifiability and original research. Please follow WP:BRD and do not revert after you are reverted as it may verge on edit warring. Thank you, Aintabli (talk) 00:34, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

There is a big learning curve here....... when you have a question just ask...pls see WP:CIRCULAR Moxy🍁 00:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Since it is for a list of names in different languages for cities, shouldn't it be okay to add all of them? It is only designed to help others, including myself. Noaius Paticus (talk) 11:27, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Also I am more of a "gathering of information specialist", rather than a "reference specialist", and if this is a very serious concern, you can add them on. I am only adding these city names on THESE lists, and NOT on the individual Wikipedia pages for the cities. I feel like this is a compromise, right? I am doing what I am doing for the GOOD of Wikipedia. Noaius Paticus (talk) 11:34, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi, next time please ping either of us using Template:ping or typing "@". For your information, I have reverted you. Please do not continue adding unsourced content. References are an inherent part of adding content to Wikipedia. Before continuing to add content to articles, you can try practicing and experimenting with citations on your sandbox page. You can use Google Books or Google Scholar, JSTOR, etc. to find sources. Aintabli (talk) 07:03, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay so, do you mean that I should link the pages in the other languages? I don't know if they would all go through, though. Plus, there will be a LOT of ones added onto the list, but if this is what is bothering you, then I guess I will do that now. Noaius Paticus (talk) 13:38, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

No, that’s not what I said. Do not add content without a reference. Please revert yourself, because at this point, you are edit warring. Aintabli (talk) 13:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

I tried to put in some of them, but not all of them worked. I don't know what to say. Only one went through so far. These should all be linking. Noaius Paticus (talk) 13:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Linking Wikipedia articles is not a reference. Aintabli (talk) 13:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

This is all I can do. If this isn't sufficient, I don't know what else I could do. For this, there aren't really any references to articles, or other websites, if that is what you are trying to say. Noaius Paticus (talk) 13:51, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Please use a reliable source, not Wikipedia articles. Aintabli (talk) 13:53, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

This is a reference. Aintabli (talk) 13:51, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Yes, I know what they are, but for this article, it is different than Wikipedia articles for cities, and people, and other things that would require those types of references. There are only 20 of them in the thousands upon thousands of names listed on that page. I would agree with you in the cases of articles like cities, and people, but this article is an exception to that. Noaius Paticus (talk) 13:54, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay, 23 technically. Noaius Paticus (talk) 13:55, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Problems in an article don’t justify contradicting with Wikipedia’s policies yourself. That list would honestly benefit from a mass deletion of unsourced content unless there are sources that can be readily added. Aintabli (talk) 13:57, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

And again, I am TOTALLY okay with anyone adding references onto the information that I create, and I might even encourage it if they are having large issues with it. That is why there is a big box at the top of the page stating that more citations should be added, that is from April 2009. Think about it, MORE THAN 15 YEARS AGO. I'm sure that others will pay attention, and add references as needed. YOU CAN TOO. Feel free to do so. Noaius Paticus (talk) 14:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

The burden is on us for any content we add to any Wikipedia article. We can’t expect others to verify our additions. Aintabli (talk) 14:05, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Why are you continuing to add unsourced content when you’ve already had a conversation about it right before? I have linked Wikipedia’s policies and guidelines in case they would be helpful, but you are persisting in violating them, even though you have the chance not to. Aintabli (talk) 14:20, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

I'M SAYING YOU CAN ADD THEM. THERE IS NOTHING ELSE I CAN DO. YOU CAN FIND THE SOURCES IF YOU WANT IT TO BE SATISFIED. I AM NOT STOPPING YOU FROM ADDING THEM, IN FACT I WOULD LIKE YOU TO ADD THEM, SO THIS CAN BE SETTLED FOR ALL OF US. Noaius Paticus (talk) 14:29, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

You’re telling me to take responsibility for your own additions. That’s not how it works in Wikipedia or in real life. Please read WP:BURDEN. Aintabli (talk) 15:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Last warning about sources

You've been asked by multiple editors to provide sources for your additions. Pls review WP:Burden. Moxy🍁 15:22, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Pls review Help:Introduction to referencing with Wiki Markup/1. Moxy🍁 15:33, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm chiming in here as an administrator. Noaius Paticus, I applaud your enthusiasm and I think you have the makings of a great editor here.

My function as an administrator is to preserve the stability of Wikipedia. If you persist in adding material that isn't backed up by reliable sources, causing other editors to clean up after you when they could be doing something else more productive, that degrades the stability to the Wikipedia project.

The tools I can use to maintain stability include blocking problematic accounts and protecting pages. Protecting an article prevents many people from editing that article. Blocking an account prevents only one person from causing disruption to many articles. Which option do you think applies here?

I don't want to block you. Believe me, that's a last resort, not something we want to inflict on an editor who is acting in good faith, like you are.

So please! You really need to pay attention to what more experienced editors are telling you. Any material you add can be removed if you don't bother to make the effort to cite a reliable source. The WP:BURDEN is on you, and not anyone else, to provide citations for anything you add. Wikipedia becomes less of a reliable source without those citations. Don't expect others to do your work for you. Don't make a block become necessary to prevent further disruption. ~Anachronist (talk) 00:17, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

BUT FOR THESE I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO PUT FOR THEM. THAT'S THE THING. I WOULD IF I COULD. BUT I CAN'T. OBVIOUSLY IT COMES FROM SOME SOURCE, WHETHER IT IS THE TERM USED BY PEOPLE WHEN TALKING ABOUT THAT PLACE NAME IN THEIR LANGUAGE, OR IF IT IS A DATABASE, OR AN ARTICLE, OR ANY OTHER ONLINE TEXT/DOCUMENT. IT IS PROBABLY THE FIRST ONE THAT ARE THE SOURCES FOR WHICH I PUT IN THOSE CITY NAMES. BUT FOR THAT, YOU CAN'T LINK ANYTHING. LISTEN, THESE CONCERNS ARE ALL VALID, BUT THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT. I'M DEEPLY SORRY. Noaius Paticus (talk) 20:17, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Plus there is a nice big banner at the top of the page that reads "MORE CITATIONS NEEDED" that was from 2009. Noaius Paticus (talk) 20:22, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

If you can't find a source to back up what you want to put into an article, don't put it in. It's really that simple. Sources also don't have to be online. They can be hardcopy newspapers, magazines, journals, or books you find in a library. Valid sources can also be online behind a paywall, they don't need to be free. They just need to be published and available to anyone (even if accessing them is inconvenient or pricey). ~Anachronist (talk) 23:14, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

@Anachronist: I guess they simply don't understand. Moxy🍁 22:13, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Moxy, I'm giving this editor one more chance. Noaius Paticus, use the article talk page to describe the sources that support your changes. That's what the article talk page is for: to discuss ways of improving the article and gain consensus for changes you want to make. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:18, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

WOW, no one has talked on that page for 14 years. Something seems fishy about that, if 2010 was the last time someone commented on that. Also, none of the things that they wanted are currently visible on the page. Plus, MOST OF THE PAGE ALREADY DOES NOT HAVE SOURCES, AND THE SOURCES THAT ARE ALREADY THERE DON'T LEAD DIRECTLY TO THE VISIBLE INFORMATION THAT IS THE SPECIFIC SOURCE OF WHERE THE INFORMATION WAS EXACTLY FOUND. Listen, this makes sense for a normal article, but this ISN'T a NORMAL article. Sources are not AS necessary than in those other types of articles. I am simply getting this information from the titles of the cities in the pages of the versions of those cities in different language Wikipedias. If you REALLY wanted me to find the source that that language Wikipedia got it from, it probably would not be in English, or it would be unnecessary, since they are already there on those pages. This situation, I think, should be one of the exceptions to the rule. Noaius Paticus (talk) 23:58, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

And if we keep my changes, we can fix some links to pages that did not link properly, and that will link properly with my edits. Trust me, I am just fixing things, and making it more inclusive, that's all. Noaius Paticus (talk) 00:30, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm sure we all stand by accuracy and inclusiveness, right? Noaius Paticus (talk) 00:32, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

So please don't delete any more of the edits, unless there is something more that is not accurate or inclusive yet, and I will try to satisfy that. Just remember, this is all for the better of Wikipedia, and these two things are certain what I live my Wikipedia edits by, but, in some aspects, my broader life, in general. Noaius Paticus (talk) 00:37, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

@Anachronist: ....Simply not here. Let's go with an article block........ See if they have the capability of adding content to other articles including adding sources as requested. Moxy🍁 01:06, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Blocked

You were warned. Because you failed to heed the advice given to you, and have resorted to edit warring instead of meeting your burden of providing sources or attempting to gain consensus on the talk page, you are blocked from editing list of names of Asian cities in different languages indefinitely. If you want to be unblocked, read Wikipedia:Guide to appealing blocks before you attempt to appeal this block. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:43, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2024 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 2 December 2024. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Mass unexplained changes to Latin pronounciations

Please review Help:IPA/Latin (the version before your edits) and understand the difference between Classical Latin and Ecclesiastical Latin. Also look at the pronunciation of wikt:Caesar#Latin. Based on User:Furius' revert reason at [1], I also suggest acquiring an improved understanding of International Phonetic Alphabet before these kinds of changes.

Your edit at Julius Caesar introduced the incorrect phone [z]. Help:IPA/Latin contradicts this, saying that Classical Latin only pronounced [z] for an actual <z>. Other sources doubt if native Classical Latin speakers could pronounce [z] at all, substituting [ss] unless that also spoke Greek. The out-of-process changes lacking consensus at Help:IPA/Latin claim to be without the fabricated semi-Anglicized pronunciations that were there before. However, they use [u], which appears to be more Anglicized than the proper [ʊ] that was there before. Sources should also be cited for extraordinary claims that the new version is "PROPER".

Please revert the mass changes and establish consensus first like the help page banner says. 216.58.25.209 (talk) 05:50, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Please stop adding your own pronunciations if you're not a native speaker and please stop replacing the English IPA pronunciations in articles about places in Singapore.

Hi Noaius Paticus, I noticed that you've made some edits to articles like Changi, Bedok and Bukit Batok. However, you're completely replacing the Singapore English IPA with Malay IPA, which makes no sense to me, since we primarily speak English here as a common language. Malay is mainly spoken by Singaporean Malays. In order to preserve language neutrality, and to reflect how Singaporean locals actually pronounce these place names, all IPA transcriptions in these articles should represent Singapore English pronunciation. Plus, most of the transcriptions you have provided are actually incorrect. In Standard Singaporean Malay, [o] is used instead of [ɔ], and stress generally always falls on the first syllable unless it has a schwa.

Furthermore, you've provided some audio recordings for place names like Johor Bahru despite the fact that you're not even a native speaker of Malay. I feel like you're trilling the 'r's too much, in Malay, more often that not, they're just flaps. Though I'm not a native speaker, I know this because I'm actually exposed to the language on a daily basis. Please stop whatever you are doing. MiltonLibraryAssistant ❉ talk 14:06, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Okay. You can have BOTH the Malay and Singaporean English, and if you want, you can record them, since you are more accustomed to the native pronunciation. I am not "trilling the rs", and if you want to adjust the IPA pronunciations, I am fine with that. I just simply want to add more pronunciations across languages, and I am totally open to feedback from natives of the region in question. I just pronounced the names according to the languages that contain their etymologies. I try to always learn the accents of natives to replicate them, so that I can sound native, but, once again, I will accept any constructive feedback. Noaius Paticus (talk) 14:15, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for acknowledging. I'm not against the idea of displaying Malay IPA transcriptions, but you should at least relegate it to a footnote, so it doesn't clutter the lead section. However, I still think that it's entirely redundant since most of the time, the Malay pronunciation can already be inferred from the SgE pronunciation. Again, I'm not a native speaker and I won't record anything in languages I'm not fluent in. Don't try replicating pronunciations if you're not a native speaker, it's very easy to mishear something and produce an incorrect pronunciation. Your pronunciation of "Johor Bahru" does not sound native and may mislead readers. I think you're better off recording an American English pronunciation of the place name to guide speakers unfamiliar with English IPA.

Furthermore, you claim that "/ɸ/ is the truly native pronunciation of "wh", and not /f/" for Māori, but that's just linguistic prescriptivism for a language you don't speak. Both forms are in common use (Maclagan, 2002). MiltonLibraryAssistant ❉ talk 14:43, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

With regard to Māori pronunciation, check out Help:IPA/Māori. The standard symbol used is /f/, and read the footnote. I feel like you should follow the standards set by the Help:IPA. Not everyone is familiar with IPA. MiltonLibraryAssistant ❉ talk 14:51, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

• To clarify, when I say I'm "not a native speaker" I mean that I'm not a native speaker of Malay. I don't have a good mic so I would rather not record SgE pronunciations. MiltonLibraryAssistant ❉ talk 14:59, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

  I use my computer microphone, and it works fine. Noaius Paticus (talk) 16:49, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

There are other sources from Wikipedia that confirm that Māori BORROWED the "f" sound from English. Noaius Paticus (talk) 16:45, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Also, I am not a native speaker of French, Italian, German, Spanish, Russian, Latin and Hebrew, but I have accents that I believe are ALMOST identical to some versions of native accents, and I will not do this on languages like Chinese, Thai or Vietnamese, where I probably can't replicate the tones that are vital to those languages. Noaius Paticus (talk) 16:52, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

I don't condone recording stuff if you're not fluent or native, there are some issues with your Malay recordings:

• Batu Putih.wav — A more natural pronunciation for the regional accent is [puteh], not [putih]. Also, the [h] sound here is usually very light and sometimes even omitted, it is nothing like English [h].
• Petaling Jaya.wav — The stress is on the second syllable of petaling, not the first. Furthermore, it's more natural to use [ˈd͡ʒajə] for Jaya.
• Changi.wav — Some Singaporeans aren't even aware of the fact that this is a Malay place name, because it's probably a corruption of a Malay word, cengal or cengai, and just because it's etymologically derived from Malay, doesn't mean you should go and record a pronunciation for the place name in Malay. An English pronunciation will suffice. I (and most people) will use a locally Anglicised pronunciation for Changi and I'm not going to be pronouncing it the way you're pronouncing it — it's more natural to use an aspirated ch sound here. By pronouncing it in Malay, you're only representing the way it's pronounced in a Malay conversation by Malay speakers, which is an incredibly specific scenario. The audio recording also doesn't sound like it's from a Malay speaker, which makes it all the more unusual. I feel like you're trying to suppress the aspiration a little too much, and the intonation isn't right. Typically stress in Malay isn't associated with higher pitch.

MiltonLibraryAssistant ❉ talk 04:17, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Language changes over time. If Māori speakers had borrowed the f sound from English, then that's just how it is now. The original pronunciation isn't "more correct", that's just linguistic prescriptivism. MiltonLibraryAssistant ❉ talk 04:28, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Yes, Māori may have borrowed the F sound from english, just like many other languages borrow sounds from other languages. Different languages influence each other all the time. Te Reo did not stop evolving or changing after Pākehā arrived.

I understand wanting to preserve Te Reo, but acting as if classical Māori is the only "correct" form of Māori is actually erasing years of evolution of the Māori language, and is not helpful. Kiwiisabirdok (talk) 05:39, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

June 2025

Please do not add or change content, as you did at List of U.S. state and territory nicknames, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources to see how to add references to an article. Thank you. -- D'n'B-📞 -- 18:35, 28 June 2025 (UTC)