User talk:JianDatong

Well done

Hi I'm Barkeep49 an experience editor who does New Page Patrol (NPP). While doing NPP I came across Postsocialism written by a student in your class and was very impressed with it. I then checked for other new articles from your class and came across the equally (perhaps more) impressive Sino-Soviet Relations 1969 - 1991. These are, in my mind, are incredibly impressive new articles especially from novice editors. Your teaching is really doing something right - many well researched new articles read more like research papers than encyclopedia articles but these two are clearly encyclopedia articles. I just had to stop by and say well done. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 21:00, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for being so clueless. I just saw your message. Thanks for the encouragement. JianDatong (talk) 17:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Shein's Contributions to Global Climate Crisis for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Shein's Contributions to Global Climate Crisis is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shein's Contributions to Global Climate Crisis until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

Please also note that another article Fast fashion's impact on the climate crisis in China has been recommended for bundling with this AfD.Happy Editing--IAm Chaos 01:02, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Changing Food Consumption in China

The article Changing Food Consumption in China has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Appears to be fundamentally an essay; out of the scope of Wikipedia

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Happy Editing--IAm Chaos 01:02, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Byron Metcalf (May 9)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by HickoryOughtShirt?4 was:

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Byron Metcalf and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 01:29, 9 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, JianDatong! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 01:29, 9 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks for letting me know (and for all your behind the scenes work).

Yes, I would like to figure out a way to create a page for this artist. There is plenty of evidence of his importance (such as millions of Spotify streams of his music, the number of albums, etc). That alone would seem to be enough to qualify him. I understand that the source issue is problematic. The student who wrote this checked with a reference librarian and we found only a few things. I have found liner notes for his most famous album. Can you explain how I might otherwise provide the necessary evidence? Such as his earlier, more mainstream music work (with Kenny Rogers) that can be confirmed?

I mention this as part of two larger issues. The first is that I am teaching a course on non-traditional topics (the history of ecstatic experience), so we are likely to have topics that are outside the best of Wikipedia coverage. Indeed, the second is that I use your training materials (and my own) to encourage students to add underrepresented topics/people who, alas, often have not as much information about them (chicken and egg).

In my view, this person is from a very underrepresented genre of music. So, in part, I want to find solutions so that future students won't be discouraged in the sources are not academic enough.

Thanks again! JianDatong (talk) 17:55, 9 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi JianDatong and thanks for this comment. Firstly, I really appreciate the effort you and your students are clearly putting in. If I had known this was for a class, I would have left a much longer comment. Secondly, offline sources are welcomed on Wikipedia but everything must be sourced. Therefore, if you are struggling to find sources (even with the assistance of a librarian) it is likely that this subject is not notable enough for Wikipedia OR you need to significantly cut down the article. As a professor (I am assuming?), does your university give you access to archival websites like Newspapers.com or Newspaper Archive? HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 19:16, 9 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a professor at the University of California, so yes we have terrific digital resources and excellent reference librarians that the students are required to meet with (not only for the specific assignment goal but also to teach them what a professional looks like, and not just someone using AI and surfing the internet). I think they already checked the most obvious sources. I'd say it might have to be unconventional ways such as Spotify streams. Seems to me if a musician has had millions of streams, that would qualify them as significant, esp. in an obscure sub-genre like trance/shamanic drumming. Do you have additional suggestions? I also wrote the awesome Wikipedia Foundation because, as mentioned, this may happen more often. JianDatong (talk) 19:26, 9 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

PS This one Metcalf song has 5+ million streams on YouTube (not to mention Spotify):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cV5DHaVKv4 JianDatong (talk) 19:27, 9 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There are two routes you and your students can take when writing articles. They need to either fall under WP:GNG or the specific notability criteria for the person's career (eg. professor, musician, businessperson). For musicians, they need to fall under these criteria WP:MUSICBIO. These criteria have been discussed and approved by the Wikipedia community. This is the only way your student's articles will be approved. I also acknowledge that there are definitely shortfalls to our criteria, but this was done by community consensus. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 19:32, 9 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'll look those up. For the record, I have ZERO problem with you all having standards! Doubly so when they are consensus-based. And triple-y so now that AI relies so heavily on Wikipedia. I told the student all along that we might have this problem and that in itself would be a "teachable moment". I'll look at those standards with her and see what she wants to do. Thanks again. JianDatong (talk) 19:37, 9 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good. Feel free to ping me if you have further questions or check out the Wikipedia:Teahouse. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 20:40, 9 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]