User talk:Ermenrich

Leftovers by a sock/sleeper account?

Hi. How do you do? I have a strange feeling about these two articles:

• Cadiseni and White Huns

They were started by Special:Contributions/Baskovski, and they didn't edit WP after creating those articles in late 2021 and early 2022. Do you think their activity was related to Special:Contributions/Giray_Altay? The quality/reliability of both articles are questionable in my opinion, especially White Huns. Or Baskovski was just another random user who registered an account and felt it was necessary to create those two entries and added them to {{Huns}}. What do you think? --Mann Mann (talk) 05:54, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

It’s entirely possible they’re connected, Mann Mann. Are these even real topics? As far as I knew White Huns referred to the Hephthalites.—-Ermenrich (talk) 12:21, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

I don't know. Cadiseni has some English citations while White Huns is based on mostly Russian sources. @Paramandyr: Your thoughts? Another point: After the death of Mirfatyh Zakiev in August 2023, there is low to zero activity by Tirgil34-like accounts (Tirgil34 always tried to push Zakiev's stuff). The last Tirgil34-like quest I saw was edits by this user on Saka (stopped his activity in December 2023). I submitted a SPI case for him in 2020. @Krakkos: was aware of his case. The second point is after post-2020 studies about Turkic peoples (genetic, language, and original homeland), I don't see as much pseudo-history as pre-2020 on WP. --Mann Mann (talk) 02:57, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

The only accessible English source on the "White Huns" article identifies them with the Hephthalites, [1]. I'd suggest merging it to there.--Ermenrich (talk) 12:52, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

And by merging, I mean redirecting.—Ermenrich (talk) 16:15, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

How did user:Baskovski(4 edits at that time) know about the draft article Cadiseni to ask for its deletion on WP:AN? Who made/edited that draft article? Baskovski then created the Cadiseni article. My apologies to Ermenrich for blowing up their talk page. --Kansas Bear 16:36, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that too. What do you think about Cadiseni? --Mann Mann (talk) 03:38, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

A brief search of "Cadiseni" on google scholar reveals them to have been a real tribe. (Unfortunately almost all the sources are just copies of each other.) What I can't verify is that they were "were an ancient tribe of Hephtalites that lived in Garchistan even before the appearance of the Xionites." In fact, there are almost no results if you search Cadiseni and Hephthalites together. In older scholarly usage, Hephthalite was used for all Iranian Huns, and since the sources are old, that's a possible explanation. But if you search "Cadiseni Huns" or anything like that, nothing really comes up. The source quoted on the article (in German apparently, but it's not online) says that the same name was "later used" for a group of Hephthalites, so your guess is as good as mine.

My guess is that line should be removed from the lead and they should be taken off the Huns navbox.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:42, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

I also WP:TNTed the article.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:48, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

Good job --Mann Mann (talk) 01:36, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

Request

History of Christianity has been completely reworked and is nominated - again- for FA. Please take a look.Jenhawk777 (talk) 22:28, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Hi Jenhawk777! I'm extremely busy at the moment, but I will try to take a look.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:21, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:13, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

Wikisource

Howdy, Ermenrich! Thanks for protecting us from the Huns! Don't delete my reference to Lisbeth Nypan please, because it is connected to Merseburg Charms by Bang. The Russian ones, I agree, need proper research. By the way, there are a similar Ukrainian spell as well from Poltava-ish area, but I can’t find it.

I’m not familiar to reference rules here, ’cuz am mostly active in Wiktionary. Do you think is it okay to add Wikisource references in names like I did in the edits about Huns and Þrymskviða, as I write a name of the person I refer to, but by clicking on it you get to his Wikisource text? Or do I need to refer it by adding extra template? How do I do it? In the reference list?Tollef Salemann (talk) 17:46, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Hi Tollef Salemann. We need to use WP:reliable sources to add things to Wikipedia. The sources have to say exactly what we use them to say (with paraphrasing), otherwise we run the risk of WP:synthesis, which is not allowed. I've reverted part of your addition at Huns for this reason as well - it's not sourced except to one 19th century source, who may or may not be considered relevant by today's scholars (which runs the risk of adding WP:FRINGE content. If you have any questions, I'm happy to help! It's not my goal to keep people from editing Wikipedia, just to keep article standards high!--Ermenrich (talk) 17:50, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

It might be useful to learn how to add inline citations, such as the {{sfn}} and Harvref bibliographical templates as well.--Ermenrich (talk) 17:58, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

I have used sfn in other cases, but here I have used Wikisource referring to his name. I have read his book about Huns and stuff and I’m not a fan of it, that’s why I wrote that he has "speculated". Do you think it is not worth to mention him at all? He seems as a big guy in early Swedish ethnography. Also, his source (the farmers) mentions that this Swedish Hun leader went to Rome, so it can be related to the Huns depicted in newer legends. Should I maybe rewrite it? Tollef Salemann (talk) 18:35, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Tollef Salemann, I wouldn't include it unless it's mentioned in more recent sources. WP:AGEMATTERS.--Ermenrich (talk) 20:37, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Swedish Academic Dictionary (SAOB) enlists "hunahär" as both Swedish legendaric army of "Huns" and the archaic name of the historical Hun Army. Also, as I wrote there, the first mention of the Swedish Hun Army was not even mentioned by Cavallius, but you find it in SAOB. For the third, already Olaus Petri made distinction between legendaric "Swedish" Huns and real Huns. I see, we may both find Cavallius problematic, but the legend itself is not made up by him.

That’s why I think it worth to be mentioned on the same rights as information about Huns from Tidrek of Bern Saga, which is also completely nonsensical. Both this saga and the Swedish folk tale were inspired by the Huns, despite getting their history wrong. Not completely wrong, as you see the one of accounts mentioning seige of Rome. Tollef Salemann (talk) 14:45, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure I follow your sources - are you using modern, academic sources that are still current? You seem to be referring to sources even older than Cavallius. What exactly does the SAOB say? If there's just a word that means "Hun army", that's not really anything at all. I can cite a German word that means Hun army and it's not worth adding.

I don't dispute that there may be a legend, the question is WP:RELEVANCE - if not discussed by current scholarship, we can't include it on our own volition.--Ermenrich (talk) 15:49, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

No, per SAOB dictionary it does mean this legendary army, but sometimes was applied to the historical Hun army, otherwise also meaning the Wild Hunt. SAOB mentions another very old source which Cavallius forgot about. But I get your point, it’s needed more sources on this subject, especially modern. I’m gonna try to find them. Tollef Salemann (talk) 16:06, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

Nazi scholars

Sometime ago, you asked me to work on the topic of Nazi scholars, which I've not had much time to do. However, I did recently strengthen the page on Walther Wüst, which could probably use some additional review; when and/or if you feel so inclined. To date, I've not scoured German sources for him, since I am not presently on faculty anywhere, limiting my access accordingly. Nichtsdestoweniger, hoffe alles bei Dir gut ist. Obenritter (talk) 20:57, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

Hi Obenritter! This guy certainly seems a pretty committed Nazi (even if he was maybe originally an opportunist, given how late he joined the party). I will try to take a look myself at some point.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:35, 22 April 2025 (UTC)