User talk:Doug butler

Hello, Doug butler! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking

or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! FlowerpotmaN·{| width="100%" style="background-color:#F5FFFA;"

Getting started
A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Intuitive guide to Wikipedia
Getting help
Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention
Policies and guidelines
Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons List of policies • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • List of guidelines Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability

The community
Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists
Writing articles
Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review
Miscellaneous
User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General • Spam • Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

February 2008

Welcome, and thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test on the page Samuel Beckett worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you would like to experiment further, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Please do not sign the article mainspaces; signatures are only for talk pages. Enviroboy^Talk_Cs 05:42, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

User talk archives

BTW how does one create a User talk archive? Doug butler (talk) 21:51, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There are lots of ways it can be done, some of them automatic, but I've had no success with the automatic ones, (and anyway, being the control freak that I am, I actually prefer to have control over what's happening.)

So I do it manually. And there are several ways you can do that, too.

Probably/possibly the easiest/best way to do it, (certainly a better way to do it than what I do, but I only discovered this method in the last year - had I discovered it earlier, I would probably use it), is the two step process:

1) Use "move page" to rename your talk page (e.g. move "User talk:Doug butler" to "User talk:Doug butler/Archive 1")

2) "User talk:Doug butler" will then become a redirect to "User talk:Doug butler/Archive 1". Edit "User talk:Doug butler" - remove the redirect and replace it with the stuff (copied from "User talk:Doug butler/Archive 1") that you like having on the top of your talk page.

Then, next time you want to archive, move "User talk:Doug butler" to "User talk:Doug butler/Archive 2"

Etc.

Hope that helps. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:38, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. That seems to have worked. Doug butler (talk) 15:00, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

User talk:Doug butler/archive1 User talk:Doug butler/archive 2 User talk:Doug butler/Archive 3 User talk:Doug butler/Archive 4 User talk:Doug butler/Archive 5 User talk:Doug butler/Archive6 User talk:Doug butler/Archive 7 User talk:Doug butler/Archive 8

David Low caricature tagging

Dear Doug, Thank you very much for contributing all those delightful caricatures! Would it perhaps be possible for you to replace {{PD-US-expired}} with {{PD-US-expired-abroad|2034}} in the licensing section? That would tell people what's going on and help move them to Commons as soon as their Australian copyright expires. Felix QW (talk) 07:08, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Felix QW: Thanks for the suggestion; I think I understand what you mean and I concur heartily. But do you have any suggestions as to how my collection (some 325 files, listed at User:Doug butler/David Low caricatures 1915) can be uploaded more expeditiously? And that is no criticism of the upload wizard, which worked wonderfully. Doug butler (talk) 11:37, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hm... At Commons, people use all sorts of mass-upload gadgets that I am unfamiliar with, and which probably would not work for local uploading to Wikipedia.

However, have you tried Special:Upload to see if that makes it easier? I found it to require less mouse clicks than the wizard, which speeds things up a bit. Felix QW (talk) 12:37, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, yes. That was the one I used. A masterpiece of functionality. I will do as you suggest. Doug butler (talk) 13:27, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Mr. Doug Butler

My Viennese relative Karl Selinger will be articled later due to the fact that I am working at the moment onto finish a book. Ha was the protegee of Josef Lang (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Lang_(Henker) )

There do exist a lot of articles/sources wherein he is mentioned but in context to Josef Lang and in German language:

https://www.bmi.gv.at/magazinfiles/2010/05_06/files/justizgeschichte.pdf

https://www.bmi.gv.at/magazinfiles/2016/03_04/files/kriminalgeschichte.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20051110233729/http://www.wienerzeitung.at/Desktopdefault.aspx?TabID=3946&Alias=wzo&lexikon=Tod&letter=T&cob=5787

https://www.oesta.gv.at/veroeffentlichungen/archivale-des-monats/archivale-des-monats-november-21.html

Is it ok to set cits to another language?

Same about Bonifaz Sellinger [de] (1912–2002), Austrian Benedictine abbot he has also been a memeber of my familiar environment. Language here is also a transforming mean of communication. Therefore Selinger and Sellinger are ment to be the same. An article should also follow.

Regards Rollomatik Rollomatik (talk) 10:15, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Verifiability#Non-English_sources covers use of non-English sources. If I understand it right, references in languages other than English (LOTE) are welcomed but preferably with a reliable English translation. Can you find anything written in English in a reputable reference work, sufficient to start an article, if so, I'd be pleased to assist. Doug butler (talk) 12:30, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Doug Butler, thanks for the answer, yes, you got that right.

I look forward to coming back later when there is more time for an article! I think it is fine to write an article in English or in another language, but if the referring sources exist (only) in another language, they should be used authentically, or be allowed to refer to a different language page in Wikipedia (and Google Translate does the rest). The same applies here in German-speaking countries, if sources exist in another language (e.g. in English), they should be cited in their original language, or point to it. Some names in combination with other professions, some with references to other languages too, or when no article is available, have been left in Wikipedia. Does it also depend a bit on the administrators and/or the profession of the person mentioned?

Have a nice day. Rollomatik (talk) 06:47, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Doug Butler - question

Hi Doug, you have added amazing content and detail on the Solomon family (SA and NSW). I am a direct Solomon family descendant and would really appreciate if could ask a question on the source of one piece of information? Thank you, Mark 2001:8003:295B:200:512D:E4A6:1783:EF33 (talk) 11:51, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will help if I can; what is the problem?

P.S. by a curious coincidence, while making some edits on the Townsend Duryea article, I stumbled on another nice Solomon story. Check it out — you don't need to read the whole article, just "Notes" above the "References". Doug butler (talk) 23:38, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of File:Balwin Spencer 104 - Orig.jpg

A tag has been placed on File:Balwin Spencer 104 - Orig.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image is an unused duplicate or lower-quality copy of another file on Wikipedia having the same file format, and all inward links have been updated.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Jonteemil (talk) 12:57, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No contest The picture was saved under a misspelled title, and contained that error in the artwork. Doug butler (talk) 23:42, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question for Doug Butler - from yesterday

Hi Doug, had to create an account to continue. I am interested in the Wiki info on Vaiben Solomon's son Edwin Arthur Vaiben Solomon (20 September 1877 – 2 December 1963) and his wife Jessie Elizabeth Black. This Wiki page notes Jessie as Aboriginal stolen generation and raised by the Black family. I am not sure if you know who made this edit or contribution and the possible source? Appreciate any guidance you may have. Thanks Mark P.S Like the Townsend Duryea story - back then eloping was a crime, while marrying a cousin was not (times changed!) MarcoBonzo (talk) 11:47, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have reluctantly reverted the assertion and amended birth year. Reluctantly, as the changes made by the IP editor look bona fide.

"new shortcut"

There's discussion at T369993. We wonder if always having the sticky header (which would result in the entire first line being hidden) is a preferable solutoin. Aaron Liu (talk) 14:43, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Doug, follow up

Thanks Doug, wasn't looking for a deletion or correction as it is quite possibly true/accurate. No way I can know/contact the editor who made it? MarcoBonzo (talk) 04:37, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can see the benefit in references when making radical assertions. A pity there's no way of contacting the IP user; all we can do is geolocate them to Sydney. There is an interesting comment by one Karen Wilbur, at the bottom of Quinlan's blog.. Check it out, It may be relevant to your query. Tomorrow I start looking for a copy of Jennings and Benkendorff A Tribute to Lance Vaiben Solomon (1913–1989). As you know, blogs are deprecated as a source, and Quinlan claims he's using that book as a source.

Oh, and no need for you to start a new subject, just keep adding on to this thread. Doug butler (talk) 11:48, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Victor James and William Bottomley

Hello,

I'm having trouble following the history of the Victor James page. Do you think it would be appropriate at this point to make a separate page for William Bottomley? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 00:50, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the feedback. I remember being quite immersed in the story, then stopped when I'd exhausted my sources and haven't looked back, but welcome criticism and suggestions. Do you have any leads for me? Doug butler (talk) 01:20, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be helpful to tease apart two articles, and to create one for Melbourne Unitarian Church to parallel Sydney Unitarian Church. What do you think? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 02:49, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well the article is OK as it stands considering the reference I have, and it seemed to make a coherent story, but the ball is now on your side of the net. Cheers, Doug butler (talk) 05:09, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Simpson

On the page for Simpson, you reverted my edit removing The Simpsons from the "most often refers to" section. You said that the show is simply called "Simpson" in Australia. I don't live in Australia, but I've never heard the show simply be called "Simpson." I removed it because it was a random edit made by an anonymous IP from somewhere in Jamaica, which is nowhere near Australia. I was wondering if we could discuss it here. GilaMonster536 (talk) 22:43, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Haha — we are talking at cross-purposes. Your explanation for deletion was "The Simpsons is more often called "Simpsons"", which I stupidly took to mean "without the definite article". I restored the entry as harmless and possibly helpful as it's the way most people would immediately associate the surname "Simpson", with or without the plural -s. Best wishes, Doug butler (talk) 23:20, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2024 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 2 December 2024. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:18, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Otago Gold Rush (basketball)

The article Otago Gold Rush (basketball) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Fails WP:GNG and WP:NORG

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. DaHuzyBru (talk) 05:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Anne Ross (Australian sculptor) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Anne Ross (Australian sculptor) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anne Ross (Australian sculptor) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

Ceoil (talk) 14:17, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Otago Gold Rush (basketball) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Otago Gold Rush (basketball) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Otago Gold Rush (basketball) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

DaHuzyBru (talk) 05:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I recall "Made in germany" as cheap inferior goods

you deleted my talk page comments on anti-Italianism and the australian catholic church swatting. you stated your reason for deleting my talk page comments as being that the talk page is for improving the article, not about subject matter. My comments are consistent with that purpose also. 49.180.3.201 (talk) 22:19, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free image File:The Back of Beyond cover low res.jpg

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:The Back of Beyond cover low res.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of non-free use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:38, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

fixed Doug butler (talk) 20:02, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edit to Tenby

With regards to your recent edit to the Tenby page, on the basis that J. Ernest James does not have a wikipedia page, I don't think that he can be deemed a notable resident. Perhaps he is notable, but considering there isn't even a citation next to his name relating to his living there (and possibly a brief overview of his notability), I don't think it is appropriate to list him as a notable resident. Mac Edmunds (talk) 20:35, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Mac Edmunds: Fair enough: I jumped the gun when I discovered the Tenby article; my original information had a mis-spelling of that name. Do you have access to information that might improve the article? It's currently very Oz-centric. Doug butler (talk) 21:25, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Which article are you referring to - Tenby or J. Ernest James? In terms of the Tenby article, it only mentions Australia once. On flicking through the J. Ernest James article, if you have edited it or are associated with it, you may like to know that Tenby is in Wales not England. When the article states 'James was born and educated in Pembroke, Wales, a son of a son of Elizabeth James and William James of Monkston Senior School, later of Culver Park, Tenby, England', Tenby is near Pembroke and in the wider county of Pembrokeshire; perhaps the article is confusing England with the United Kingdom? Just mentioning incase you wrote this or misunderstood the geography. Mac Edmunds (talk) 22:09, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for picking me up. The original article had "Wenby, England". I fixed one, but not the other. All corrections are welcome, but I'll be pleased to fix that one myself. Doug butler (talk) 22:26, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of The Oxford Companion to Australian Jazz for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article The Oxford Companion to Australian Jazz is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Oxford Companion to Australian Jazz until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

Aquabluetesla (talk) 02:48, 30 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Vaiben Solomon for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Vaiben Solomon is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vaiben Solomon until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

AnonymousScholar49 (talk) 03:12, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cinema of Australia - History

Hi Doug Butler, I have just edited this paragraph after researching with great care on this topic. Currently the quote is as follows: A landmark of newsreel photography was in 1897, when films of both the Caulfield Cup and Melbourne Cup were screened at the Melbourne Opera House on the evenings of the race. The events had been captured on film for W. C. Baxter and developed the same day by photographer Robert William Harvie (died 5 October 1922) and inventor Ernest J. Thwaites (c. 1873 – 12 July 1933). Unfortunately this is not correct. You can check on the film itself. Both films were made on October and November 1896. The Derby (not Caulfield Cup) and Melbourne Cup were both won by a horse called Newhaven who is featured in the film. Newhaven did not run in 1897. My grandmother was present during the making of the film so I know it to be true! It is important that we get this fact correct because it makes the detail of Australian film all the more interesting. The entire film can be found at the National Film and Sound Archive with a link which I gave elsewhere. Please check and change back. Or query with me.**** SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 18:13, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hardly surprising that the film of 1896 is different from those of 1897. Doug butler (talk) 19:29, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please see my reply on your talk page. The film of 1896 (archived in Australian Sound and Film Archives) includes footage of the Victoria Derby (which Newhaven won also) and Lady Brassey presenting the ribbon) plus the Melbourne cup, which Newhaven won and Lord Brassey presenting the cup with a beautiful moving picture of Newhaven being exercised. it was also called a kinematograph. My grandmother who was 8 at the time had a cousin called Harry who had gone to Sydney earlier that year to see the first Lumiere shop and the first kinematograph of the traffic on London Bridge. It is written in her remembrancer which is where she was supposed to record her sins.

Those were the days...I am a retired teacher, journalist for The Age and writer of poetry, novels, editor...but none of that matters for the fact that I am interested in getting things right. Most of the stuff for this exercise is on Trove.**** SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 20:25, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

W C Baxter - history

Hi Doug Butler, Not sure how to contact you. You have reverted my changes to the history of the filming of the Melbourne and Derby cups. The film was made in 1896, not 1897. It was not the Caulfield Cup (which did not exist then) but the Victoria Derby. The horse that won both was called Newhaven which did not run in 1897 (you can check). They used some of the footage from the win of the Derby for the completed film. My grandmother was in the film and saw it on the night. She was 8 years old. It was 3 November 1896. Please check with the Australian Film and Sound Archives or use my edit. I don't mind you doing it as long as somebody does**** SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 18:19, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you SOTA for your most welcome message. Your assertions about 1896 are irrelevant to the filming of the Cups and projection of the developed film on the same evening, (a stunning achievement if you know anything about wet photographic chemistry) which was indeed in 1897.

Do not remove references which do not support your idea of the facts. Better to add a separate paragraph with the alternative proposition, and its own references.

I have just read every word in the reference you cited and can find not one word in support of your contention, nothing about Baxter or filming, in fact hardly anything about the Melbourne Cup.

I look forward to future correspondence. Doug butler (talk) 19:09, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Doug, I have inserted a paragraph which I hope may be acceptable in the History of Cinema. The references are all in Trove and therefore 'archived'. My skills are not good enough to cite archived material. Criterion: Sydney Morning Herald Wednesday 25 November 1896 Page 8 THE LUMIERE CINEMATOGRAPHE Sydney Morning Herald Tuesday 24 November 1896 Page 6 THE LUMIERE CINEMATOGRAPHE .....Listings of each film reel is on Wiki entry The Melbourne Cup (1896 film) External films are catalogued in Lumiere Media. I don't know how to quote them. Australian Sound and Film Archive for the four extant films. Running of the Cup. The Adelaide Advertiser, Wednesday 4 November 1896 The Melbourne Cup (Trove)**** SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 15:37, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

PS How about adding something to your userpage. Don't use mine as a template; its totally functional. Some other users have used artistic flair as well as the usual guff about qualifications and interests. Doug butler (talk) 19:18, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have just written some stuff on my user page. Also - please can you ensure that the references as given above are correct - they are mostly archived. The only one I can find on Trove that mentions the Princess theatre is Sydney Morning Herald 21 November 1896 page 10 Lumiere's Cinematographer.**** SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 18:55, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your reply. I'm rather old and very new to editing. So I'm not sure what to do about my userpage. Or whatever. I am writing the biography of my grandmother and checking the facts. I know for a fact that she was born in 1888, was in Melbourne at the Melbourne Cup where she bet on Hopscotch at the behest of a punter in the Ipswich Advertiser called 'Rocket' but lost her thruppence because the winner was Newhaven. And that the year was 1896. Newhaven also won the Derby the previous week. There is a film summary of this on the following wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Melbourne_Cup_(1896_film) My grandmother actually viewed the film the night of the 19 November at the Princess Theatre as a guest of Lady Brassey. It was the following year when the double film was made in the same day BUT that was not the first film in Australia of the Melbourne Cup!!! My grandmother was in the clip of the people getting off the station. In 1896. It is very important that someone (hopefully you as you know the correct procedure for archived references and I don't) correct/clarify this. Reason being that Australia was at the forefront of kinematography. She also visited the Lumiere shop in Melbourne but was NOT impressed as she loved 'real' likenesses. She said these were too grey. This is not 'my idea of the facts'. these are the facts as supported by the Sound and Film Archive. You can tell by the horse. The following year, the weather was so appalling that the ladies dresses were sheeted and the light was terrible. But 1896 was a brilliant year for light. Areany of these any use?

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14073918/1361509

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14076699

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14076896

I know it is vitally important to cite the correct references. that's why I'd prefer you to do it. The ones I gave describe the running of the cup but are very convoluted. Make sure you check the date. The existing refs are all for The Age 1897. Different winners. Different films.

**** SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 20:14, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Container deposit

Random question, I know, but...looking at your userpage, I was curious if you knew why the deposit on Coke bottles was quadruple the deposit on beer bottles? Nyttend (talk) 21:31, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We're talking 1940s to 1960s when bottles were washed and refilled. Two different collection routes: beer bottles were collected in bulk by licensed collector with horse and cart, the bottles (26 fl.oz.) packed into hessian bags and piled high on the cart. Coke bottles (6 fl oz I think) went back to the shop, and every deli had a stack of crates out the back. A tempting source of income for the larceniously inclined I would think. More commonly consumed away from the shop was 26 fl oz soft drink bottles (crown seal or screw top). I think the refund on those babies was 6d (5 cents). Can't explain the price difference, maybe something to do with quality control. Soft drink bottlers owned the distinctive bottles. They could (and did) reject dirty or damaged bottles or those with the screw-top missing. Beer bottlers also refilled but the quantities involved were much greater, and brewers used a standard crown seal bottle. "Pickaxe" was one brand. Doug butler (talk) 22:43, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]