Template talk:Infobox country

I think we should remove religion

Hi, I propose the removal of "Religion" from this infobox for several reasons. Many countries do not collect religious statistics in their censuses at all. Various opinion polls and surveys often produce conflicting or uncertain results, leading to confusion rather than clarity. Additionally, religion is a deeply personal and sometimes contentious subject, making it more appropriate for discussion in a separate page rather than being summarized in this infobox. Removing it would improve accuracy and maintain neutrality.194.22.49.234 (talk) 13:16, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

This and ethnicity in my view should be dropped..... there's so many religions and ethnicities the infobox simply is a jarbled mess. Moxy🍁 19:39, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

You are right about ethnicity, very few countries actually collect data on "ethnicity", instead most countries are more likely to collect data on citizenship of foreigners which is totally different. 192.36.208.102 (talk) 20:17, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

The problem is we have talked about this before to noavail. - unlike driving side (as seen below) this is somthing covred in every article in the body...and .for many countries this is a dominated social issue. Moxy🍁 20:21, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

But we should still remove them. Wouldn't you agree? Plus most countries simply don't collect reliable data on religion, for example, with opinion polling firms trying to "fill the void", however with multiple different polling firms using different methodologies and different results it becomes nothing more than a confusing mess with no clear way of knowing which result is the closest to reality and which one to use in the infobox.192.36.208.102 (talk) 20:23, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

I don't have a strong opinion that it should be removed altogether, but it should certainly be moved from being near the top of the data items. I think area and population should be moved toward the top as the most important statistics. Reywas92^Talk 15:09, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

I think "religion" should be removed completely from this infobox, we simply do not know which opinion poll results are the most accurate in countries that do not collect religious affiliation in their censuses. 193.11.40.11 (talk) 10:45, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

So leave it blank for countries where there aren't good sources. Or leave out the percentages if there are conflicting sources, and include a reference to them, or put ranges if the figures differ. If the sources are so unreliable that we can't even list ethnicity and religion in the infobox, how can the article have a section on those? Every country article includes religion and ethnicity in the demographics section. It's hardly a mess to list the ones discussed there. PaulGS (talk) 03:09, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

I think "religion" and "ethnicity" should be removed from the country infobox because they’re often too complex, fluid, and sometimes sensitive to be accurately summed up in a simple box. Unlike things like population, GDP, or official languages, which are quantifiable and relatively stable, ethnicity and religion are subjective, self-reported, and there is often no reliable government statistics for them, making the data inconsistent, or potentially unreliable.

This infobox is meant to provide clear, uncontested key facts about a country, but reducing diverse and often disputed demographic realities to a few percentages risks oversimplification and misrepresentation. Many countries have conflicting definitions of ethnicity, and religious affiliation doesn’t always reflect actual belief or practice. If the sources are unreliable, disputed, or even politically influenced, including them in the infobox just spreads misinformation.

Besides, as these topics are already covered in the demographics or deticated sections, where there’s room for nuance and multiple sources. The infobox doesn’t allow for the necessary context, like historical, legal, or social factors that shape identity, just to name a few. If something is too complex to summarize accurately without oversimplifying or misleading, it’s better left to its own section, where it can be properly explained. 192.36.208.102 (talk) 09:05, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

I agree that we should remove "Religion" from the infobox, opinion polls in countries that don't collect religious affiliation statistics in their official censuses are a complete mess. Plus, I remember a time when in this infobox, "Religion" wasn't even used, I think we should go back to that. Belson 303 (talk) 18:04, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

You are right. We should remove it. 192.36.208.102 (talk) 09:43, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

Driver side

Something so unimportant that no settlement article mentions this in the article body.....suggest we drop it. Moxy🍁 08:25, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

Agreed. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

I swear we've had this discussion before. Removing it would at least stop the quite common talkpage posts saying the side of the road is wrong. CMD (talk) 03:11, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

Hello, Infoboxes are made for information, so, driving_side parameter, needs to stay. I think it’s also better for the reader to know, for example, the driving side of Zambia, is left and, the reader, with this information, learns something. QwertyZ34 (talk) 11:29, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

That's inaccurate. Articles are meant for information, infoboxes (a tiny percentage of an article) are intended for "key facts". CMD (talk) 13:34, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Does the driving side at least appear in the article ? QwertyZ34 (talk) 14:57, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Almost never, which is part of the issue. On that metric, it does not seem to be a key fact. CMD (talk) 15:01, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Why does it need to be mentioned in the article if it's already in the infobox? How many articles discuss the country's calling code and Internet code? How much is there really to say about a country's time zone, especially when it only has one and shares it with its region? All of those things are useful facts about the country that are best suited for the infobox. Removing the information makes the articles less useful. PaulGS (talk) 03:04, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

`date_format` encourages distinguishing CE and AD?

I don't understand this:

date_format = ... all-numeric date format and era, such as [[Common Era|CE]], [[Anno Domini|AD]], [[Hijri year|AH]], etc. ...

If I had to guess, it's an accidental implication and we're mostly trying to indicate AH while being otherwise inclusive—but is there actually impetus to specify either CE or AD here? Remsense ‥ 论 14:49, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Are you suggesting we take AD/CE as the default? If so, we could use BE as another example if needed. CMD (talk) 14:35, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

We quite explicitly take that as the default epoch and those as the two default set of labels. Remsense ‥ 论 23:11, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Clarify description of `conventional_long_name`

The description for |conventional_long_name= says the parameter is for the Formal or official full name of the country in English. I realize this is ambiguous: it can mean

1. The translation into English of an official name in another language, likely the one for |native_name=
2. The name used by the state itself when writing in English

I think the latter is the more intuitive reading, but excludes the use of this parameter in non-English-speaking states prior to its status as global lingua franca. The former is likely what is meant, and makes more visual sense? Remsense ‥ 论 14:42, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

2 is the expected use for current countries. A lot of the infobox breaks down in different ways when used for historical polities, it is hard to generate rules for them. CMD (talk) 08:17, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

Do you think it's sensible to reflect something like this in the documentation? It seems odd and OR-adjacent to display calques at the top of articles like Mongol Empire, though I appreciate that may be appropriate in other instances when more frequently attested in English-language scholarship. Remsense ‥ 论 08:33, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

I would be cautiously supportive of recommending infoboxes not prominently display a historiographical name, although I'm sure exceptions abound. CMD (talk) 08:42, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

By historiographical name do you mean anachronistic labels coined by later scholars—e.g. Byzantine Empire, Sasanian Empire as examples I don't expect you to feel the same way about but are presently treated oppositely? Remsense ‥ 论 18:53, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

I would include those actually, I like how Sasanian Empire doesn't repeat "Sasanian Empire" in the infobox. However, I'm not going to bat for reducing calling the Byzantine Empire the Byzantine Empire, that's a matter for scholars to figure out. CMD (talk) 03:48, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

@Remsense:; @Chipmunkdavis: what do you think: Talk:Golden_Horde#Conventional_long_name. (context: Golden Horde -> Great State / Mongol Empire -> Great Mongol Nation) Beshogur (talk) 13:05, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

Quick facts - Capitaland largest city

Quick facts are not formatting properly where the capital is the largest city. It comes out as 'capitaland'. I'm assuming it's the template as it's the case for both Liberia and the UK, but I can't see how to correct it. Robertm25 (talk) 14:02, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

Looks fine to me - perhaps it's something specific to your browser or setup? Try looking at it in incognito. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:31, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

The rendered code is

<th scope="row" class="infobox-label">Capital<div class="ib-country-largest">and largest city</div></th>

which should render "Capital" in bold followed by "and largest city" on a new line. I tried to add a harmless space between "Capital" and the div tag, which didn't work in this case, but that space should not be necessary. Let us know what browser you are using, what operating system, and whether you are looking at the desktop view or the mobile view. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:03, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

We should still remove "Religion"

Hi, I would like to follow up on the proposal made by "194.22.49.234" to remove "Religion" from the infobox, we should proceed with removing it as most countries don't have reliable religious statistics in the their censuses and opinion polls today are nothing more than a confusing mess, but we should also remove it even if there are countries that still include religion in their census for consistency as it would look weird that some countries have it and others don't. Wouldn't you agree? 192.36.208.102 (talk) 13:50, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

I said before I agree but this might be a hard sale. Moxy🍁 13:56, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

I think religion should stay, but some way should be found to stop a list of percentages from censuses. A state's religion can be useful in showing its culture. Eg, islam is central to the culture of many middle east states, as is Judaism for israel. Most countries will not have an overriding religion so the parametre should not be filled in.Roger 8 Roger (talk) 22:19, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

If the desire is to display the state religion, then the field should probably be labelled "State religion". CMD (talk) 03:51, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

That would be better than the current hodgepodge. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:18, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

This would be similar to the system that Encyclopedia Britannica already uses (for example in Iran it just says "Official Religion: Islam", while in the Netherlands, which is a secular state, it says "Official Religion: none"). 192.36.208.102 (talk) 05:55, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

Support changing it to state religion instead 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 16:38, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

I also like this idea.,... Support from me for the change. Moxy🍁 16:57, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Yes, better than the current mix of censuses and surveys of varying quality and import. Also (for the avoidance of doubt) better to create a new parameter "state religion" and remove "religion" from the template, rather than merely document guidance that |religion= should only be used for the state religion in future. NebY (talk) 17:11, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

We should change the parameter so it's clear if we go forward |official religion= Moxy🍁 17:13, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Yes, though I slightly prefer "state religion" to "official religion" (I'm maybe soured because I see so many "official" tourist buses and the like). NebY (talk) 17:19, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

You're suggestion sounds reasonable to me. This change would require quite some cleanup.... affecting a huge slew of articles. Moxy🍁 17:23, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

I think that we should keep the religion param but start a RfC to mark it as deprecated 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 17:47, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

So "State religion" or "Official religion" (leave aside the question of 'religions')? I note we might want to distinguish this in the documentation for the category from 'recognized religions' which is itself a broad category ranging from states like Iceland which grant tax money to registered religions but puts almost no limits on which religions can be recognized nor requires citizens to belong to one or states like Indonesia which has 6 recognized religions but officially secular [though theistic] or Israel with 14 recognized religions but officially Jewish [in the latter two cases almost all citizens are slotted officially into one of the recognized religions and laws about marriage, inheritance, can differ depending on which religion one is in]). Then we have the United Kingdom which as a whole has no official religion though two parts of it do (England with an established church and Scotland with a national church). Erp (talk) 17:46, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

There is only 43 countries that have official state religions.. [1] Moxy🍁 17:54, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Change "Calling code" to "Telephone country code"

This template has a parameter calling_code, which for unknown reasons disregards all standards that name this the "country code", per ITU nomenclature. But country code might be ambiguous, so change its label to telephone country code. kbrose (talk)

New proposal to replace "Religion"

Hi, I would like to follow up on my previous proposal about removing "Religion" from the infobox. I now want to propose replacing the current mess of a system ("Religion" showing a list with percentages of each religious group) with a new system, suggested by user CMD of instead showing "State religion" or "Official religion", in which is either the State Religion or "None", with the "None" redirecting to the page about Secular state. So I would look like this: Saudi Arabia, State Religion Islam. While a country like France would look like this: France, State Religion None. It would be similar to what Encyclopedia Britannica already uses. Wouldn't you agree? 192.36.208.102 (talk) 12:56, 28 May 2025 (UTC)