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Talk:UEFA Europa League

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Former featured article candidateUEFA Europa League is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 6, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted

UEFA Cup from 1971 to 1999

[edit]

Should the history that "UEFA Cup was the 3rd tier European competition from 1971 to 1999" be added into article UEFA Europa League? User:Woodlandscaley has reverted my edit in article UEFA Cup Winners' Cup. In addition, I cannot find a table like zh:欧洲足联俱乐部赛事记录和统计#歷年冠軍 in English Wikipedia... UU (talk) 03:15, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@UU: a friendly reminder that there are also other dispute resolution processes other than RfC. In any case, the only reason I removed this information was that I couldn't find any sources (the four cited in the article, plus other online sources) that explicitly support this fact. Also, the season pages prior to and including 1990–91 UEFA Cup states that UEFA Cup was the secondary competition, while 1991–92 UEFA Cup and later editions state it is the then-tertiary competiton, even though there aren't any changes to European competitions... Alpha Beta Delta Lambda (talk) 16:32, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
UU, there needs to have been an WP:RFCBEFORE, you should first discuss this with Woolandscaley to see if you can come to a consensus together Kowal2701 (talk) 16:49, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think the 'confusion' arises from the UEFA Cup now being the 2nd tier UEFA competition, but when the Cup Winners' Cup was running, the UEFA Cup was then considered the 3rd tier competition.
(e.g. The UEFA Super Cup was contested by the winners of the Tier 1 and Tier 2 competitions.)
The 'Related Competitions' in the info box is referring to the other competitions at the time of the Cup Winners' Cup, i.e.
European Cup (1st tier)
UEFA Cup (3rd tier)
The Cup Winners' Cup was subsumed into (merged) with the (then 3rd tier) UEFA Cup - with the UEFA Cup (from 1999-2000) then becoming the 2nd tier UEFA competition.
In effect, what the info box is trying to represent is:
European Cup (1st tier)
UEFA Cup (3rd tier); (merged with)
with the UEFA Cup thus becoming the new 2nd tier tournament. Woodlandscaley (talk) 21:48, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
But how do you deal with the [dubious discuss] [citation needed] tag raised by User:Firestar47 ([1]) and the information removed by User:Alpha Beta Delta Lambda ([2]) in article UEFA Europa League? Simple mathematical calculation does not need citation, but if two users challenged the information in a short time and one user (not me) agreed with them, raising RfC is needed. Initially I raised in Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Maths, science, and technology... UU (talk) 23:08, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've given my thoughts - I no longer allow myself to get frustrated by "stuff on the internet" that I know is inaccurate! I just move on.
The Cup Winners' Cup was the 2nd tier competition - however, in many instances 'weaker' than the UEFA Cup. But the CWC was still regarded as the more prestigious. Which is why its winners were the opposition to the European Cup winners in the Super Cup.
Also, if a club finished runners-up in their league (to qualify for the UEFA Cup), but then subsequently won their domestic national cup, they would enter the Cup Winners' Cup.
Have a look at this Facebook page for a flavour of opinion - obviously can't be used as a 'source'. https://www.facebook.com/mundialstyle/posts/cup-winners-cup-history/1084507680377944/
The only 'source' I can find with a quick look would be on page 8 from https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/01d9-0f842685651a-f24cacace181-1000/uefadirect_86_06.2009_.pdf
(not my capital letters!)
CREATED TO REPLACE THE INTER-CITIES FAIRS CUP, THE UEFA CUP QUICKLY ESTABLISHED ITSELF AS A TOP UEFA CLUB COMPETITION, TO SUCH AN EXTENT THAT IT BEGAN TO OVERSHADOW THE CUP WINNERS' CUP AND EVEN THE CHAMPION CLUBS' CUP. Woodlandscaley (talk) 06:43, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
For me the issue with considering the 3 competitions as being tiers is that the Cup Winners Cup is not based on league position, the qualification route is completely different and it is thus part of a different pyramid, a pyramid based on cups. The UEFA Cup could be called 2nd tier because it is taken from the league position like the european Cup but with the cup Winners Cup vs European Cup the CWC is imo better described as 'alternative' and 'less prestigious'. Firestar47 (talk) 09:05, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, if that's how you feel.
I've contributed my points and will not be contributing further in this discussion.
Cheers! Woodlandscaley (talk) 13:06, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've pulled the {{rfc}} tag because there is no indication that WP:RFCBEFORE has been tried, let alone exhausted. You may continue discussing the matter here, indeed should do so, just not in the manner of a full-blown thirty-day RfC. If you need to attract more opinions, the thing to do is to drop a note at WT:FOOTY, directing them here. Templates such as {{fyi}} and {{subst:please see}} are available for this. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:22, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Now, to the original matter. Speaking from a purely UK perspective, in the 1970s, the three competitions for European clubs weren't "tiered", as such. Each one had different qualification criteria:
  • the champions of the Football League qualified for the following season's European Cup
  • the winners of the FA Cup qualified for the following season's Cup-Winners' Cup
  • the winners of the Football League Cup qualified for the following season's UEFA Cup
Three different routes to three different competitions. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:03, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]