Talk:Challenge League (Switzerland)

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Requested move 16 May 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 21:59, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

– These pages generally use the word "Swiss," but only non-official database sources seem to use these. Official league naming conventions simply call it "Challenge League" and "Promotion League." The Promotion League's name was officially changed in 2013, and the Challenge League has been referred to by that title in official contexts. Did not nominate the Super League as it seems to be referred to as the Swiss Super League more often. Came to the idea that this makes more sense from @GiantSnowman's suggestion at a different move discussion. Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 21:12, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 21:31, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural oppose - @Yoblyblob:, what on earth are you doing?! I have no idea why you withdrew your 'Swiss 1. Liga (football)' discussion, and I have no idea why you have bulked so many articles jere about separate leagues that merit separate discussions. Wha you need to do is:

1) Close this RM

2) Nominate Swiss Challenge League / Swiss Promotion League / Swiss Promotion League individually and separately

3) Once there is consensus on what the parent article should be called, we can then deal with the season and other related articles and categories.

Please slow down and ask for help if you don't know what you are doing. Your attempt to steamroller through this is causing more disruption and wasting time. Giant Snowman 21:35, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@GiantSnowman: I have shrunk this nomination. I figured more coverage on the season articles would have been identical and notified more interested editors to the discussion. Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 21:45, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, you should not add or remove articles once a discussion has started. Like I said - close this discussion entirely and start again, with separate discussions for the 3 leagues. Giant Snowman 21:48, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 16 May 2025_2

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It was proposed in this section that Swiss Challenge League be renamed and moved to Challenge League (Switzerland).

result:
Moved per consensus seen in survey below. We see two strong support arguments and sturdy rebuttals to the opposition. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone stay healthy! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 09:48, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Move logs: source title · target title

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Swiss Challenge League → Challenge League (Switzerland) – The reason for a previous move is confusion on my part. Sources generally refer to this as the Challenge League. This is seen on the official site, which only refers to it as Challenge League, with the sponsor as well. News sources also refer to it as such: [1], [2], [3] Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 22:12, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 08:38, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom, standard disambiguation. Giant Snowman 08:40, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose/keep Hello fellow Wikipedians, I oppose to this suggestion, please keep the titles as they are. I have created, or at least worked on (or am indeed now working on), most of the pages that would be affected by these moves (i.e. seasons of the Swiss Super League/Nationalliga A, Nationallige B, seasons of the Swiss 1. Liga, seasons of the Swiss Cup). Please note, that when one writes, reads or talks about football in Switzerland one uses the words: Swiss Super League, Swiss Nationalliga A, Swiss Challenge League, Swiss Nationallige B, Swiss Promotion League, Swiss 1. Liga, Swiss Cup, seasons in Swiss football. One does not write, read or say: Super League (Switerland), Nationalliga A (Switerland), Challenge League (Switerland), Nationallige B (Switerland), Promotion League (Switerland), 1. Liga (Switerland), the Cup (Switerland), nor seasons in football (Switzerland). Furthermore, yes indeed, if you search for Challenge League in German you recieve the suggestion Challenge League Schweiz and if you search in French you get the suggestion Challenge League Suisse. However, if you search in English, you recieve the suggestion Swiss Challenge League and never Challenge League (Switzerland). Please reconsider, because hundreds of pages would be moved and very many texts in thousands of other articles would, in content, become totally incorrect. Thanks and greetings from Switzerland --Huligan0 (talk) 23:42, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Huligan0 please provide reliable sources that support your claim. I cannot find anything suggesting that things like "Swiss Challenge League" is used in Switzerland Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 23:58, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Huligan's rationale basically boils down to "I don't like it". Giant Snowman 20:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Challenge League and DAB to Challenge League (disambiguation), the Swiss League is clearly WP:PRIMARY and the other similar named leagues are WP:NATURALly disambiguated. Page view stats here: [[4]].-Ortizesp (talk) 13:40, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging @GiantSnowman to see input on this as the destination Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 16:21, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree that there is a PRIMARYTOPIC here. Giant Snowman 16:23, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 4 August 2025

It has been proposed in this section that Challenge League (Switzerland) be renamed and moved to Swiss Challenge League.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

Challenge League (Switzerland) → Swiss Challenge League – Although the official title of the league is simply "Challenge League", the previous title "Swiss Challenge League" aligns better with Wikipedia's naming conventions like WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NCDAB.

The top-tier league remains titled Swiss Super League, making "Swiss Challenge League" more consistent within the national football context.
Many secondary or less internationally prominent leagues use country disambiguation (e.g., Belgian Pro League, Malaysian Super League) to avoid confusion.
"Challenge League (Switzerland)" is awkward and overly formal — this format is typically reserved for topics that require parenthetical disambiguation.

This page was moved in May 2025 via a request, but I believe consensus should be revisited in light of broader naming patterns and recognizability. Oberyn42 (talk) 14:43, 4 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Challenge League is the COMMONNAME as discussed in the above move. Using the Super League as an example does not fit as the other Swiss leagues no longer use the word Swiss, so no consistency is needed Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 15:50, 4 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
How does the Super League not fit? It's literally called the Swiss Super League, despite its common name being just Super League, so it would be consistent with that. Using Swiss to disambiguate the league from others with similar names is literally consistent with how it's done for other minor and smaller leagues in Europe. I can list more examples if you like (at the risk of you insisting on ruining these pages as well):
The same is done for professional women's football (e.g. Belgian Women's Super League).

Like I said, having the top two leagues of Switzerland be named consistently makes more sense. Seeing as the vast majority of European football leagues don't use parenthetical disambiguation like this, I fail to see how this move made any sense. Unfortunately, I had missed the earlier discussion and was unable to weigh in.

Furthermore, for using and linking it's easier to use and looks a lot better. Oberyn42 (talk) 08:20, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Giant Snowman 18:28, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You can just ignore my objections with "OTHERSTUFFEXISTS", but I'm not wrong about this being the standard way of disambiguating smaller European football leagues. It also doesn't address my objection that the parenthetical disambiguation is just awkward, overly formal, and just flat out unnecessary in this case. Parenthetical disambiguation is far rarer for this topic. Oberyn42 (talk) 09:13, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 18:27, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose following recent discussion at #Requested move 16 May 2025_2, which nominator has either not bothered to research (in which case: lazy) or they have and ignored it (in which case: disruptive). Giant Snowman 18:28, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, so I was unable to participate in the discussion in May as I was undergoing some surgery at the time. Otherwise I would've opposed the move for the same reasons that I outlined above. I also researched this topic before suggesting a reversion of the move and came to the conclusion that there isn't just one correct way. Therefore, in my opinion, the original move was made unnecessarily, as there wasn't sufficient reason to rename. Oberyn42 (talk) 09:16, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Hello fellow Wikipedians, I opposed to the first suggestion for renaming and wrote quite a long explanation, that can be read above. Oh yes, indeed my rationale did basically also boil down to "I don't like it", but I did also notice that the idea behind the first renaming was not followed up. Over the years, I have been working on many Swiss football sites (note please: not football sites (Switzerland)) and somehow things are getting complicated with the names of the various Swiss league articles (for example 2024–25 1. Liga Classic, there was no such division! I will look at that problem later). I agree with all the noms arguements and would be glad if the first name change would be reverted. Greetings from Switzerland --Huligan0 (talk) 19:17, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the support. I'm also Swiss, living in Switzerland, and follow the league in question on a weekly basis. It's a bit grating that the original move was championed (dare I say "forced through") by what appears to be an American. Oberyn42 (talk) 09:18, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is quite a rude statement to make, nationality has nothing to do with editing Wikipedia, reliable sources do. Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 14:39, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 09:32, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]