Talk:Sovereign citizen movement

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Sovereign citizen movement article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3: 3 months

Alternative views Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Alternative views, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of significant alternative views in every field, from the sciences to the humanities. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion.Alternative viewsWikipedia:WikiProject Alternative viewsTemplate:WikiProject Alternative viewsAlternative views
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Australia: Crime Low‑importance

	Australia portal Sovereign citizen movement is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Australian crime (assessed as Low-importance).
	Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian^{What's this?} at the National Library of Australia.
	The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance.

Canada Low‑importance

Canada
portal

WikiProject
Canada

Canada
notice board

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Canada articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CanadaWikipedia:WikiProject CanadaTemplate:WikiProject CanadaCanada-related

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Law Mid‑importance

	Law portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

New Zealand Low‑importance

	New Zealand portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New Zealand, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New Zealand and New Zealand-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New ZealandWikipedia:WikiProject New ZealandTemplate:WikiProject New ZealandNew Zealand
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics: American Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by American politics task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Sociology: Social Movements Mid‑importance

	Society portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the social movements task force.

United Kingdom Low‑importance

	United Kingdom portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

"state national"

According to "Interview with a sovereign: Judge Anna's world".: "It should be noted Riezinger and the majority of her ilk reject the term “sovereign citizen,” considering it an oxymoron; the term she uses is “state national.”". Should this be mentioned in the lead as an alternative term, though much rarer? 2603:6011:9440:D700:DD73:11A6:D89F:BF16 (talk) 20:31, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One reference isn't sufficient to demonstrate that this is an alternative term that merits mention. Whether SCs prefer the term or not is irrelevant. VQuakr (talk) 22:22, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The term is already mentioned here among other denominations. Psychloppos (talk) 12:37, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The term "State National" falls in line with the descriptions and definitions of Sovereign Citizen. Actions and beliefs of "State Nationals" are exactly the same as Sovereign Citizens and therefore rightly belong as a synonym.

@ 2601:281:D47F:4010:122B:8DCC:18E5:73BD (talk) 05:40, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Again, you need a reliable source showing this is a synonym, not just a one-off term this particular subgroup uses. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 13:32, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With this already included in the "Denominations and symbols" section, barring sources that can show widespread usage of the term across the spectrum of sovcit groups, I think it's being handled appropriately. Ravensfire (talk) 18:28, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:COMMONNAME would suggest that we continue to use "sovereign citizen". TarnishedPath^talk 03:28, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed but I also think we can include the other terms sovereign citizens may use to describe themselves in the lead paragraph. G o m m e h 15:06, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see why we would. It would strke me as being a bit WP:UNDUE. TarnishedPath^talk 23:51, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The USA is not a common law country.

The first sentence makes it sound like the USA is a common law country. It should be reformulated with something like mainly observed in the United States as well as some common law countries: Canada, UK, Australia. 24.212.14.201 (talk) 03:20, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thompson Reuters says that:

"There are many countries throughout the world that use common law legal systems, including the United States, which originally based its common law rules on English common law.

In fact, every U.S. state — with the exception of Louisiana — has a common law legal system". TarnishedPath^talk 03:32, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You're correct. I feel stupid, but I was thinking of the Commonwealth. 24.212.14.201 (talk) 07:58, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

All former British colonies have legal systems based on common law. This is explicitly called out with respect to the US in the Federalist papers. I know that in the current judicial climate you could be forgiven for thinking that precedent means nothing, but that's a relatively recent complete rewriting of history by activists. Guy (help! - typo?) 10:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but doesn't Canada have a similar system except for Quebec? G o m m e h 15:04, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sovereign citizen or civilian

We live in civilisation which is why we have civil law. A civilian is sovereign by civil law. A citizen is classed as an employee of the city therefore cannot be sovereign.

So it should be sovereign civilian not sovereign citizen Lethalee (talk) 14:31, 27 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the question of language needs to be clarified. ..

The term citizen is a legal term. Therefore is written and spoken in legalese.

Civilian is taken from the Latin word 'civilli' which translates into English as the meeting place of the gods. A biblical term recognised by civil law. Which is why the law grants the people sovereignty. Lethalee (talk) 14:41, 27 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have an citation for any of this? From an actual authority?

We're not here to play SovCit word games. SovCits are notorious for making up fake distinctions and definitions and then using them to argue technicalities that don't exist. ApLundell (talk) 15:22, 27 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wibble. Guy (help! - typo?) 21:18, 27 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]