Talk:Soham murders

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The contents of Ian Huntley was merged into Soham murders. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. For the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

The contents of Maxine Ann Carr was merged into Soham murders. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. For the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

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"Ian" Huntley transitioned?

As far as I'm aware, the wikipedia policy on names and pronouns for transgender people is to go with what they themselves say to use. Does this extend to criminals or not? There are a lot of news reports saying Huntley prefers "Lian" and "she" pronouns: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/15/call-lian-child-killer-ian-huntley-has-told-inmates-call-feminine/ Wikiditm (talk) 09:51, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Criminals are humans too. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:58, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There has been a marathon length debate about this at Chelsea Manning. If a person is widely known under a particular name before transitioning, it cannot be hidden per WP:NOTCENSORED. This would apply to Ian Huntley. Also, the Telegraph cite above is based on a story in The Sun [1], so it has sourcing problems.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 13:46, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes definitely don't hide the previous name, but the Chelsea Manning article consistently uses "she" pronouns and the name Chelsea, including when referring to times before she was known as Chelsea. Should we do the same here?Wikiditm (talk) 21:54, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

According to more recent news reports in December 2018, Huntley is now asking to be called "Nicola", but "It is thought that Huntley has not yet made an official request for the sex change". (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ian-huntley-demands-sex-change-13708814) Subject to further developments, I think it would be premature to make changes to the article at this time. Blurryman (talk) 00:19, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Got you. This makes sense. Looks like the situation is one where we will change if it becomes clearer that there is some preferred name other than Ian, but at the moment that clarity just isn't there.Wikiditm (talk) 20:09, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It was apparently a lie made up by the press - and one newspaper printed a "clarification" about it today [2]. --Wickedterrier (talk) 14:01, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I was just coming back to post this. In case future editors want to change the name, pronouns, etc. The story I linked to above is definitely false. Wikiditm (talk) 08:37, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, this is why there is the WP:BLPSOURCES policy. If it is only found in the UK red top tabloids, it carries a tag marked "is this really true?"--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:06, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious assertion

I have tagged as dubious the reference used to support the assertion that ‘The Bichard enquiry recommended the implementation of a mandatory registration scheme for people working with children and vulnerable adults’. I’m pretty sure Bichard did no such thing. He def recommended improvements but nothing of the scope of the current implementation. Any comments? Fob.schools (talk) 08:00, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

May need restructuring and adjusting. As per the contents the contents around page nine to fifteen here.--Kieronoldham (talk) 00:21, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Possible sexual assault

I'm confused by these two sentences in the second paragraph of the Motive section:

"Pathological evidence retrieved from the bodies indicating at least one of the girls had been subjected to a sexual assault either before or after her murder was not disclosed to the jury at Huntley's trial. The reason for this decision had been that both bodies were too extensively decomposed and damaged by fire to enable a conclusive determination of either the actual cause of death or if either girl had been subjected to a sexual assault"

I read the first of these sentences as stating that there was clear evidence of a sexual assault. However, the second sentence states that there was not clear evidence of this.

If the latter is correct, could we change "indicating" in the first sentence to "suggesting"? Dferstat (talk) 08:12, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yup. The source cited (archive link [3]) says "strongly suggests". I'm not sure it really supports the assertion in the second sentence - "the reason for this decision..." - though. We'd really need better sourcing to justify that specific claim. AndyTheGrump (talk) 08:42, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the swift reply! :)

How's this for replacement text for those two sentences?

"Pathological evidence retrieved from the bodies suggested that at least one of the girls had been subjected to a sexual assault either before or after her murder. However, this was was not disclosed to the jury at Huntley's trial, and Dr Nathaniel Cary, a Home Office pathologist, said the bodies were too decomposed and fire-damaged to determine an exact cause of death or whether sexual assault had occurred." Dferstat (talk) 10:53, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'd go with "...where Dr Nathaniel Cary..."rather than "and". Otherwise it looks fine to me. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:18, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the suggestion, which I've incorporated. I'd be grateful if you'd check what I've uploaded, and let me know if I've made any errors.

Thanks again! :) Dferstat (talk) 15:26, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]