Talk:Production car speed record
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Notes for editors
[edit]Cars excluded from the list together with basic reason
[edit]| Make and model | Year | Claimed top speed | Number built | Reason |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 Super Sport | 1946–1951 | 106 mph (171 km/h) |
Unknown | No road test |
| Allard J1 and K1 | 1946–1948 | 92 mph (148 km/h) to 93 mph (150 km/h) with one source claiming over 100 mph (161 km/h) |
151 K1's | No road test |
| Aston Martin DB4 GT Zagato | 1960 | 153.5 mph (247 km/h) |
19 | excluded because of number built |
| Barabus TKR | 2006 | 270.0 mph (435 km/h) |
unknown | crashed on record attempt – no record set |
| Bugatti Chiron | 2017 | 275 mph (443 km/h) |
70 (500 planned) | excluded because of no road test (260 mph) and removal of speed limiter (275 mph) |
| Bugatti Veyron 16.4 World Record Edition | 2010 | 267.557 mph (431 km/h) |
5 | excluded because of number built – see discussion on this articles talk page. Out of the initial production run of 30 there were 5, named the Super Sport World Record Edition, which had the electronic limiter turned off, and were capable of 267.857 mph (431.074 km/h), although Guinness World Records later re-verified the official land speed record. |
| Dauer 962 Le Mans | 1994 | 251.4 mph (404.6 km/h) |
≥10 | not enough built |
| Delahaye 135 | 1946–1954 | 100 mph (161 km/h) |
unknown | no road test, numbers unknown, coachbuilt |
| Ferrari 340 and 375 America, 410 and 400 Superamerica | 1950–1959 | 149–165 mph (240–265 km/h) |
23, 12, 35, 47 | less than 20 made for 375 America and most 340 Americas were racing cars |
| Ferrari 250 GTO | 1962–1964 | 174 mph (280 km/h) |
36 | no independent road test and each car tends to be customised, race car |
| Ferrari 500 Superfast | 1964–1966 | 174 mph (280 km/h) |
36 | excluded because of no independent road test[1] |
| Hennessey Venom GT | 2010 | 265.7 mph (428 km/h)(2013) 270.49 mph (435 km/h)(2014) |
16 | excluded because of number built and single direction top speed test run |
| Hennessey Venom F5 | 2016 | 290 mph (467 km/h) proposed |
30 to be built | unconfirmed numbers and no road test |
| Koenigsegg Agera (models R and One:1) | 2011–2014 | 273 mph (439 km/h) to 280 mph (451 km/h) depending on model |
less than 20 for any model | excluded because of numbers built and/or unverified top speed |
| Koenigsegg CCR | 2004 | 242 mph (389 km/h) |
14 | excluded because of numbers built |
| Lamborghini Countach 5000QV | 1985 | 185 mph (298 km/h) |
speed record already higher | |
| Lamborghini Muira P400S | 1969 | 172 mph (277 km/h) |
338 | this model was introduced after the Ferrari Daytona |
| Maserati 5000 GT | 1959–1965 | 172.4 mph (277 km/h) claimed – more an estimate than a true measure |
34 but with different bodies | no independent test |
| Monteverdi Hai 450 | 1970 | 180 mph (290 km/h) claimed |
only 2 proto-types built, the SS and GTS | no production version |
| Ruf CTR2 | 1995 | 217 mph (350 km/h) |
31 | 16 of the 31 CTR2s were normal, while 15 were CTR2 "Sport". Top speed test missing. |
| Pegaso Z-102 BS 2.8 Supercharged | 1953 | 151 mph (243 km/h) |
>20 | less than 20 built |
| Shelby SuperCars SSC (all models including TT, Ultimate Aero, and Tuatara's) | 2004–2014 | 236 mph (380 km/h)to 276 mph (444 km/h) depending on model |
less than 20 for each model | excluded because of numbers built |
| Studebaker Avanti R2 | 1962–1963 | 158 mph (254 km/h) |
unknown for version tested | data on speed tests and configuration of the car tested unknown at this stage |
| Studebaker Avanti R3 | 1962–1963 | 171.1 mph (275 km/h) |
6[2] | insufficient made |
| Talbot Lago T26 Record and Grand Sport | 1946–1954 | 105 mph (169 km/h) (Record) and 124 mph (200 km/h) (Grand Sport) |
less than 20 for either model | excluded because of numbers built and lack of independent road test |
| Vector W8 | 1990–1993 | 242 mph (389 km/h) for prototype |
17 production models | excluded because of number built and no verified top speed for production model |
Many of these cars have been debated on this articles talk pages. Should more detailed reasoning be required refer to the relevant discussion or raise the issue on the talk page.
- ^ "Know Your Ferraris: 1958–1964". Drive Cult.
- ^ "1964 Studebaker Avanti R2 (Paxton Supercharger) – Conceptcarz". conceptcarz.com.
This article is terribly written
[edit]Unfortunately, the edit pointing out that the article doesn't have an encyclopedic tone, a neutral point of view, and appears to consist of original research was removed by some 'editor' who apparently thinks that an encyclopedia article would say junk like "Because of the inconsistencies with the various definitions of production cars, dubious claims by manufacturers and self-interest groups, and inconsistent or changing application of the definitions this list has a defined set of requirements."
Because when writing an encyclopedia statements like that are acceptable. 174.16.142.213 (talk) 06:41, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, I'll bite.
- What is the definition of a production car? Is it a car that is road legal in the US? There are cars that are road legal in Germany that are not road legal in California. There are cars that are road legal in small African countries that are not road legal in any Western country - if you pay the correct under the counter "fee". Does a run of 10 cars count? How about 3? How about a one-off special? Tuner cars? Go through the talk page archives to see the amount of time we put into that definition to make it as fair as possible.
- It is in manufacturer's interest to claim outrageous top speeds. It sells cars and any fine is typically lower than the profit from increased sales.
- There is no central repository of officially clocked top speeds made under controlled and consistent conditions (temperature, barometric pressure, etc affect engine power and tyre grip). Even the Guinness Book of Records requires a fee to keep an entry valid. We do the best we can from fully referenced top speeds that are at least interdependently recorded/reported with 2-way runs that meet our definition of a production car.
- Given the above, what alternative do you suggest? Stepho talk 08:17, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- In fact, I agree with you that the issue is fraught. But the issue being fraught didn't justify original research, the non-encyclopedic tone, and the drift away from a neutral point of view.
- If you are arguing there is no other alternative way to have the article exist, then a deletion would be in order.
- I am saying the article has issues and needs attention and am going to restore the template - if people want to give it a try, go ahead. 174.16.142.213 (talk) 13:19, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not agreeing with you - I'm just laying out the facts so that we are talking about the same thing.
- FYI, encyclopedic tone just means that we use formal English and not the informal type used in forums - totes fam LOL !
- Where are we non-neutral? We strive very hard to be neutral while also weeding out the tuner (ie modified, non-production) cars that try to claim various production car records.
- There is no universal definition of production car. So we clarify a middle of the road example and use that. We also make sure that the reader knows this - all above board.
- Deleting the article is just plain silly. The typical reader knows that such things as production car speed records exists - the magazines and newspapers claim them often. The only tricky bit is keeping them honest when they sometimes claim a record for a one-off, highly modified car that just happens to look like a car that you can buy. Hence our definition.
- Once again I ask - how would you change it?
- Are there any specific cars that you think should be here that our definition unfairly ruled out? Stepho talk 14:19, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
SSC Tuatara excluded from the list
[edit]The information that SSC Tuatara is not homologated for the roads lacks sources. Therefore, since there are no sources of this information and knowing that the Tuatara reached an average of 455 km/h in two directions, confirmed by VBOX and with audit, it should be considered the fastest production car to date. Eduardo César Schmidt (talk) 16:41, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- SSC gained a reputation for being, um, "flexible" with the truth for their record attempt and their reporting of the first "sale" (the vehicle remained at the factory long after it was reported as sold). It is hard to trust anything coming from their PR department. Stepho talk 23:19, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Change requirements from "over 200 km/h (124 mph) only" to "over 150 mph (241 km/h) only"
[edit]Readers can be deceived into believing that there were no cars capable of driving faster than 200 km/h before 1949, although cars like the Duesenberg SJ were able to run faster than 200 km/h before WW2. While this cannot be deducted from this page directly, we still create "false knowledge" among casual readers as I've observed. Requiring more than 150 mph would solve this problem since no production car from before 1945 has been reported to be faster. Drachentötbär (talk) 21:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
- The list rules explicitly state "older cars are excluded even if they were faster". Do you have an instances of readers misunderstanding this or is it just a general warning?
- Out of interest, why did we decide on a post WWII cut-off? If there were earlier cars that passed our other rules then surely they would be worthy of listing. Granted that the standards of reporting were not as rigorous, the levels of modification may be unknown and different organisations ratified different records but it might be worthwhile examining these to see what we are up against. Stepho talk 03:29, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
- On several occasions I've seen websites which obviously got and misunderstood information from this site. The first time I visited this site I wasn't aware of it either since I couldn't imagine older cars to be faster. It's also quite common for readers to overlook the introduction and only see the table as many edits on such list sites have shown. They just look at it and deduce that the Jaguar XK120 was the first car to reach 200 km/h. Drachentötbär (talk) 23:01, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
- Fair enough. No matter how many disclaimers we put in, there will always be lazy people who skip straight over them and read into it whatever they want.
- I'm not keen to change to 150 mph - mostly because it will cause the Jag to be dropped.
- Another way to go is to drop the post WWI limit and start the list at whatever car(s) could do 200 km/h. Stepho talk 02:34, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Koenigsegg Jesko Absolut? Really?
[edit]The Koenigsegg Jesko Absolut isn't the fastest production car in the world and I removed it, there's a difference between a claimed 330 mph top speed and actually going 330 mph. GylonVisagie (talk) 12:26, 18 May 2025 (UTC)
- Agreed. 330 mph is a factory estimate and there is no independent record of an actual car doing that. Stepho talk 23:27, 18 May 2025 (UTC)