Talk:Phases of ice

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A fact from Phases of ice appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 18 May 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that ice in outer space is an amorphous solid, and this may be the most common phase of ice in the universe?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Phases of ice.

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It is criminal for this article not to make reference to…

… Kurt Vonnegut’s fictional version of Ice IX, an arrangement of water molecules packed so efficiently stable that any other water molecules it ever comes in contact with — like those in every living being on earth, instantly organize themselves into Ice IX also, leading to a chain reaction that freezes the entire world over. There could even be its own section about why the thermodynamics of this would be impossible. I think it was Cat’s Cradle where this made its appearance, but I could be wrong. — 76.174.113.253 (talk) 08:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking of crimes of omission, your references, required by WP:VERIFY and WP:PSTS, seem to be missing. — Johnjbarton (talk) 14:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following cite^[1] isn't open access, so the only content I can see is the abstract but it makes it seem pertinent. That said, one doesn't necessarily need thermodynamics to wonder why, if such a thing were possible, then why had it not already happened by chance long before the Hoenikkers had developed the seed crystal? Anyway, the real ice nine is quite different, so it's not apparent where it would go in the article except maybe in a footnote. There's already an article for the fictional version at ice-nine. It is interesting that Bernard Vonnegut investigated ice formation as part of his cloud seeding research, doubtless an inspiration used by his brother Kurt for fictional ends. — Arlo James Barnes 05:44, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Arlo Barnes The Charles A. Liberko source could be used for a "In popular culture" section at the end. The abstract is probably sufficient; the article does document the origin story. You could ask for a copy of the article from the author; I found it through the UCSB library system.

Other sources for use of the Ice-9 story include

Almanza-Arjona, Y. C., García-Rivera, B. E., & Membrillo-Hernández, J. (2020, April). Writing sci-fi stories: A pedagogic challenge. In 2020 IEEE Global Engineering Education Conference (EDUCON) (pp. 1728-1734). IEEE.
Ćirković, Milan M. "Small theories and large risks—is risk analysis relevant for epistemology?." Risk Analysis: An International Journal 32.11 (2012): 1994-2004.

To be sure these three sources are about pedagogic use of fiction to study Phase transition rather than ice itself so maybe that article is a better target. Johnjbarton (talk) 14:35, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The assertion that the article does not reference Vonnegut's Ice-9 is false, see Phases of ice § Planets Johnjbarton (talk) 18:02, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Using Science Fiction To Teach Thermodynamics: Vonnegut, Ice-nine, and Global Warming". Journal of Chemical Education. 81 (4): 509. April 1, 2004. doi:10.1021/ed081p509. When covering the topic of thermodynamics at the introductory level, an example from Kurt Vonnegut, Jr's, fictional novel, Cat's Cradle, is used to take what the students have learned and apply it to a new situation. The students are introduced to the hypothetical compound ice-nine, which forms spontaneously when a seed crystal is introduced into the ocean. Using a discussion format, thermodynamic concepts are reviewed and it is determined that the process of converting liquid water to ice–nine must be accompanied by a large increase in the temperature of the surroundings.

Ice X formation mislabeled

The "Temperature Threshold" column lists Ice X as being formed from Ice III at 165 K, identical with Ice IX. This is apparently a typo. Ice X requires very different conditions from Ice IX and more likely would be formed from Ice VII or Ice VIII. Olthe3rd1 (talk) 09:52, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Where's Ice IV in the phase diagram?

I - XI are listed, except for IV Brosefzai (talk) 17:00, 15 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

phases of water

just a heads-up that I created this redirect. I don't usually mention that on talk pages since anyone can use special:whatlinkshere/phases of ice to see existing redirects, but thought I would mention it here as a possible candidate for the primary name. WP:TITLE states that article titles should be 'recognizable', 'natural', 'precise', 'concise', and 'consistent'; I believe the title using 'water' to be all of those, while also not implying that this article is only for the solid phases, when at least the diagrams and some of the text addresses the phase space broadly including fluid phases (although admittedly the triple-point regions and the solid phases seem to have the lions' shares). Arlo James Barnes 06:22, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Using Science Fiction To Teach Thermodynamics: Vonnegut, Ice-nine, and Global Warming". Journal of Chemical Education. 81 (4): 509. April 1, 2004. doi:10.1021/ed081p509. When covering the topic of thermodynamics at the introductory level, an example from Kurt Vonnegut, Jr's, fictional novel, Cat's Cradle, is used to take what the students have learned and apply it to a new situation. The students are introduced to the hypothetical compound ice-nine, which forms spontaneously when a seed crystal is introduced into the ocean. Using a discussion format, thermodynamic concepts are reviewed and it is determined that the process of converting liquid water to ice–nine must be accompanied by a large increase in the temperature of the surroundings.

[1]