Talk:Microwave oven

Vibrate?

The opening paragraph says the microwave oven causes polar molecules to "vibrate", with a cited source, but then further contradicts itself in the Principles section, stating it causes the molecules to rotate. The latter is clearly correct, with microwaves causing rotational excitation in polar molecules. For a vibrational excitation to occur, you would need IR waves, not microwaves, which naturally the microwave oven (it's in the name) does *not* emit. I think all references to "vibration" should be fixed. The source is wrong. Orisgeinkras (talk) 01:12, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Microwaves heat by causing Molecular vibration. The initial excitation of the water molecules may be rotational, but ultimately the food gets hot because the molecules are vibrating. Saying "...this induces polar molecules in the food to rotate..." is going to be misleading to the average reader since the usual meaning of "rotate" is to repeatedly spin 360 degrees in the same direction, which is not what's happening.

At least in the lede we should keep it simple and follow what is in the cited sources say. The subject can (and is) treated in more detail later in the article. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 14:34, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

I would argue calling it "vibrational" is more misleading. The individual molecules increase in rotational kinetic energy, which, when paired with EM interactions between delta+ and delta- ends of the H2O molecule increases the *translational* kinetic energy (which is a lower energy state than the rotational levels). On a macro scale this gives the appearance of "vibration", but it's actually more randomized. Readers may assume vibration would imply in the case of putting, say-- a bowl of water in the microwave-- that even motion would appear across the surface, as the bonds of the molecule vibrate while aligned (requiring a higher energy than the microwave oven is capable). Instead, the observed effect is a chaos of motion following no discernible pattern. To dispel this misconception, the language should be changed, while remaining clear that said rotation occurs *specifically* on a molecular level, causing water in the food to move about randomly at a higher (RMS) velocity, which by definition increases the temperature. Even in a simplified sense, vibrational is incorrect. Orisgeinkras (talk) 20:39, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Additionally, double checking your linked source for Molecular vibration shows the exact point I was making, the wavenumbers of the waves required for Molecular vibration are higher energy than those of the microwave oven. Please learn basics about Electromagnetic absorption by water, Photochemistry, Quanta, Molecular electronic transitions, and Excited states, and before giving misleading info. Orisgeinkras (talk) 20:49, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

References

Contrary to popular assumptions, metal objects can be safely used

The subsection on metal has a lot of back and worth where different editors were clearly responding to each other. I recommend breaking it out into its own section and add some further sub headings, something like "safe uses of metal: tinfoil" "unsafe uses of tinfoil: ..." Permareperterra (talk) 07:25, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Why is this article such a magnet for vandalism?

I've been watching this page for awhile, among others, but I'm always amazed that this page gets targeted disproportionately for vandalism. Anyone have any clue why this is? Angryapathy (talk) 13:34, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Removed citation?

There was a “citation needed” tag after this sentence in the lead’s third paragraph:

”In addition to cooking food, microwave ovens are used for heating in many industrial processes.”

I added a reference, but someone removed it. How come?

The reference was to Industrial Microwave Heating - A. C. Metaxas, Roger J. Meredith. 22ManzanaBoy (talk) 22:44, 26 June 2025 (UTC)

It doesn't belong in the lead, it belongs in the section that discusses industrial processes. The lead just summarizes the rest of the article, so everything in the lead already has a source citation elsewhere. See WP:LEAD.

I did not remove the citation, but I did move it to the right place. You can see the edit where I moved it here: [1]. You can read about page history and how to find a particular edit at Help:Page history. GA-RT-22 (talk) 08:57, 27 June 2025 (UTC)

You have a point, but your edit has the sentence ”In addition to cooking food, microwave ovens are used for heating in many industrial processes.” repeated twice in the article. Also, I just added the citation because it had the “citation needed” tag. 22ManzanaBoy (talk) 11:27, 27 June 2025 (UTC)

No source?

"In the 1960s,^[specify] Litton bought Studebaker's Franklin Manufacturing assets, which had been manufacturing magnetrons and building and selling microwave ovens similar to the Radarange."

I assume the "specify" tag means they're looking for the exact year, but no matter how hard I look, I can't find any source that doesn't just say "the 60s". Is this information not publicly available? I'll keep searching, but please post if you find any source. 22ManzanaBoy (talk) 23:37, 27 June 2025 (UTC)

The entire paragraph continues as follows:

"In the 1960s,^[specify] Litton bought Studebaker's Franklin Manufacturing assets, which had been manufacturing magnetrons and building and selling microwave ovens similar to the Radarange. Litton developed a new configuration of the microwave oven: the short, wide shape that is now common. The magnetron feed was also unique. This resulted in an oven that could survive a no-load condition: an empty microwave oven where there is nothing to absorb the microwaves. The new oven was shown at a trade show in Chicago,^{[citation needed]} and helped begin a rapid growth of the market for home microwave ovens. Sales volume of 40,000 units for the U.S. industry in 1970 grew to one million by 1975. Market penetration was even faster in Japan, due to a less expensive re-engineered magnetron. Several other companies joined in the market, and for a time most systems were built by defence contractors, who were most familiar with the magnetron. Litton was particularly well known in the restaurant business.^{[citation needed]"}

Upon further investigation, I'm almost certain there's no reliable source that supports these claims and that the date isn't publicly available. If you can find a source, please tell, but I find it unlikely you will. 22ManzanaBoy (talk) 00:08, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

Franklin was bought by White Sewing Machine Company, not Litton, in 1964.[2] The source says "by 1964" and Studebaker ceased US operations at the end of 1963, so I'm pretty sure 1964 is correct but I don't actually have a source that says exactly that.

That whole paragraph is suspect. It has a lot of facts, at least one of which is wrong, and no sources. GA-RT-22 (talk) 07:36, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

Even the source you provided seems unreliable. In my opinion, this entire paragraph should be removed. Information on Wikipedia has to be well-sourced. 22ManzanaBoy (talk) 13:04, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

I would be in favor of removing it. GA-RT-22 (talk) 13:29, 28 June 2025 (UTC)

Before I remove the paragraph, it would be helpful if anyone could point out sections of the paragraph that you can find a source for. If no one can find a source, the paragraph has to be removed or heavily remodeled. 22ManzanaBoy (talk) 15:41, 28 June 2025 (UTC)