Talk:Mara (Doctor Who)

Untitled

Edit: Is the Mara's species really 'None'? Wouldn't it be 'Unkown'? Obviously it has to belong to a species, even if it's the last of it's kind. - The Doctor

It's not the last of its kind, it's the only of its kind: a one-off, unique creation. --Paul A 02:56, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Is it though? In Kinda Tegan also encounters two old figures in the Dark Inner Place who are playing a kind of chess with each other. Where they not also Mara? Is there only one Mara or or are there several? Actually, you know, I don't know why I'm asking this as its only a fiction. Although I have to say both the Mara Doctor Who stories are particularly chilling, the ending of the second one being especially bleak. Both stories are full of Eastern religious references and ideas. Powerful stories! ThePeg 20:42, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Dukkha, Anicca, and Anatta are the three Mara seen, but they're really all one. -- Noneofyourbusiness (talk) 22:50, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Next rewrite should probably mention the brief reference in the Torchwood episode 'Small Worlds', where Captain Jack compares the creatures to the Mara, and states how the word 'nightmare' was derived from their name. --Wolfe 19:06, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

The article references the Doctor, Tegan, Nyssa, & Adric, all being in Kinda. Actually, Nyssa was left out of that story, because at the time it was written, it wasn't known that the character of Nyssa would end up as a regular on the Doctor Who series, so, when it was time to do the story, they wrote that Nyssa wasn't well, & had to sleep for a while in the TARDIS, while the other three explored Deva Loka. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Splashen (talk • contribs) 23:58, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

GA review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mara (Doctor Who)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Pokelego999 (talk · contribs) 00:26, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk · contribs) 02:44, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Hey, I will be reviewing this. I will wait a few days as I see that the article has just been recreated and more additions may occur, so I should wait until it is more stable. I have noticed that there are several paragraphs that are unsourced in the "appearances" and "analysis" sections and there is no reception yet, so this also makes me believe I should wait again. Let me know when you think the article is ready to be reviewed and I will do it. I am looking forward to it - it looks very good and interesting from what I have skim-read! DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 02:44, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

@DaniloDaysOfOurLives good catches on the missing sources; whipped this up in one go earlier and missed that entirely. I've added the sources and made a couple other changes in a few spots. Should be ready to go now, but let me know if there's anything else I missed and I'll get right on that.

On the Reception point, the Mara itself had very little direct "reception" in the conventional sense; the bulk of its significant coverage was in the form of analysis in published books and the like, which should fulfill the same requirements for notability. What reception does exist (Mostly being that they thought the snake prop in Kinda looked silly) was included in the "Design" section, since it can comfortably be fitted into a single sentence, and is related to the producer's disdain for the prop and the later inclusion of a new CGI model for the Mara on the DVD release. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 03:40, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Hey, thank you so much! I completely understand your rationale. I will review it now then :) DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 03:46, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Review:

Hey, this is a very interesting, complex, detailed and well-sourced article, well done! I can't find any major issues and earwig shows no copyright violations so here are my comments:

Infobox - it looks quite small and I feel that some of the information can be added there

• Not quite sure what to add; it doesn't really have a gender, species, or any real specific info. I did add its home, at least. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Infobox image - not a suggestion, but just wanted to add that I regret clicking on the image to see it in detail as that SCARED THE LIFE OUT OF ME and I do not think I will be able to sleep for the next 40 years LOL

• Accurate to the lore at least lmao, apologies for the fright Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Lead - Could you please link "gestalt", "non-corporeal" and "formless"?

• Formless doesn't have a valid link, but linked the otheres. Admittedly not sure if I got the right link for gestalt, so please fact check me on that. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Appearances:

1. Could you please link, change or briefly describe "gestalt entity"?

• Done. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. I'd recommend linking "non-corporeal" with Incorporeality

• Done. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "having been created through the darkness in the human heart" - I am a bit confused - whose heart? Does that mean that each being has a separate Mara that develops in their heart or that it developed in one being's heart originally?

• It's moreso the overall concept of it than every individual. Reworded for clarity. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "Bound to existing outside the universe, the Mara frequently attempts others to escape its prison" - I found this bit hard to understand, particularly the second bit - could you please reword?

• That's because I missed a few words. Should be fixed now. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. The second paragraph could benefit from a brief sentence explaining that the Mara can possess beings, especially as the following paragraphs discuss this.

• This was discussed in the words I forgot to add in the above comment. Should be addressed now. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. Could you please briefly explain what a "Kinda" is?

• Specified they're a tribe. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. Paragraphs 3 and 4 should be written in present tense per the MOS - I have changed some of this but could you please change the rest?

• Done to the best of my ability. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. Is there any information on why the Mara cannot bear to see its own reflection?

• It's so evil it cannot bear to look at itself. Added. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "was able to concentrate with a small replica of the great crystal" - I am sorry, I did not understand "was able to concentrate" - Could you please reword?

• Done. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. Could you please clarify whether the Mara wants the Doctor to say his name or the Mara's name?

• Did my best to clarify. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. Could you link or briefly explain what the "the superstition of salt" is?

• The idea of salt having purification properties that wards away evil. Wasn't sure how to link it but I've reworded it for now. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. Could you please briefly explain what "Manussa" is?

• Manussa is discussed above with Snakedance. It is the planet that appears in the episode, and this is mentioned in the text. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "In spin-offs" has some sentences in past tense which should be present tense - could you please fix this?

• Done. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "The Mara was eventually dispelled, though small parts of it remained in those it possessed" - Could you please clarify if this is what happened several centuries prior or during the story - if the latter, who else did it possess?

• Clarified order of events, didn't mention who since listing off everyone really isn't relevant (As it's a lot of people and one-offs) and so far has not had an influence on any further stories. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "depicts the wealthy" - Could you please specify (e.g. Wealthy 21st century humans)?

• Source doesn't really specify: "There, the wealthy go to sleep through their planets' darkest times, leaving room for the gestalt to infiltrate their dreams." Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Creation:

1. I am a bit confused by "as an aspect of Tegan's character" - does this mean that the Mara was meant to be like an alternate personality or something?

• Sort of like a part of her subconscious personality that took on a life of its own, if my understanding is correct. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. Could you please briefly explain "ambivalent figure"?

• Just someone who's ambivalent. Not really much more I can do to clarify that. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "with the final script editor to look over the script having rewritten the serial to fit Doctor Who's usual format of including monsters as antagonists, resulting in the Mara becoming a physical threat" - Does this mean that the character was intended to not be seen physically?

• Yes. It would have been an entirely formless creature, i.e no massive snake prop. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "an expansion of Tegan's character through it." - I think "through it" should be replaced for clarity

• Done. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Design:

1. "originally conceived as an electronic effect" - Could you please clarify and/or expand this?

• Nope. The source only says it was an electronic effect with no additional elaboration. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "The depiction of the Mara in Kinda would be panned by critics" - Could you please expand on this - what did they criticise specifically?

• Tried to elaborate but it's basically just "it looks bad" lmao Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. Could you please specify in the infobox if the picture is the plastic version or the computer-generated imagery version?

• Oh good catch. Done. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. Could you please explain how "Tegan was depicted with several visual differences, most notably including a snake tattoo present on her arm" is relevant? I felt like I was missing something

• To show the visual effects of when she is possessed by the creature. Forgot to add that to the sentence, thank you for the catch, added. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "appear as though this prop was growing from a smaller prop dropped by Tegan earlier in the episode" - Since it is talking about what happened onscreen, should prop change to "snake" or something as Tegan did not drop a prop in the fictional storyline (I think)?

• Clarified snake prop to signify what in-universe item was being dropped while clarifying the out of universe context. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Analaysis:

1. "were created with the intention of being directly symbolic in their narratives" - I was a bit confused by this - What does this mean? As I assumed that all episodes can appear to be symbolic

• Clarified. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. Could you please link "inversion"?

• Not really. It's just a basic word so there's not really an article I can link to. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "serving as a message" to who?

• To the audience. Clarified. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. There are a lot of "stated" in this section - could you please replace some of them (e.g. "opined", "wrote", "believed", "explained" etc)?

• Done. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. Could you please link or explain "Manussan culture"?

• Culture of the Manussans, who are again the main species present in Snakedance. There's not really much more I can say in regard to this unfortunately. I did clarify which episode it was depicted in and the timeframe being compared in-universe, though. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "and were large generators of power, even in a world dominated by science" - Could you please specify what "were large..." is referring to?

• Simplified. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

1. "Sleight stated that the Mara's use of language acted as a pivotal aspect of its character; the Mara uses language to manipulate events to its desired outcome; conversely, the key to stopping it is only discovered through silence, which Sleight stated was a radical message that helped contribute to the "atypical" and more complex nature of the Mara's serials" - Could you please break this up into two sentences as it is quite long?

• Done. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Sources - Could you please archive the remaining sources (I ran the iabot bot which archived a further 6) and remove/create a redirect etc for the redlink in Source #13?

• Will do. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

I hope I do not seem annoying/nitpicky with my comments - a lot of these are just things I struggled to understand and believe that other readers may struggle with too, and hence I wanted to bring them up to see if they could be clarified to help readers per WP:READERSFIRST. Please let me know if you have any questions or need any assistance. Once these have been addressed, I will do a source spotcheck and pass the article :) DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 04:34, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

• @DaniloDaysOfOurLives: Sorry about the wait, I'm also sidetackling Ice Warrior rn (Which ngl I will probably finish later today instead of editing further at 2AM lmao) and didn't notice you reviewed this for a hot second. I've addressed the above comments. Let me know what else needs to be done. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:22, 17 June 2025 (UTC)