Talk:Make America Healthy Again

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 8 April 2025 by reviewer Robert McClenon (talk · contribs).

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The article MAHA Commission was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 16 June 2025 with a consensus to merge the content into Make America Healthy Again. If you find that such action has not been taken promptly, please consider assisting in the merger instead of re-nominating the article for deletion. To discuss the merger, please use this talk page.

Do not remove this template after completing the merger. A bot will replace it with {{afd-merged-from}}.

Comments left by AfC reviewers

Comment: If the page is unbalanced, it can be fixed. We cannot incubate this until its perfect. Meets WP:GNG and I requested the redirect to be deleted in order to move to mainspace. CNMall41 (talk) 18:26, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: First, most of this article's significant content can be found in the main RFK, Jr. page. The title is already a redirect to this page, so the draft article is mostly redundant. Second, the draft has a major WP:FALSEBALANCE problem, with disproportionate weight given to pro-RFK Jr. positions (e.g. the water fluoridation section; the overwhelming majority of experts think RFK is in the wrong on this one, but the stack of references 28-31 would give a different impression). The NPOV issues with this article are too serious as it now stands; I would be willing to reconsider an article with content more balanced with respect to RS, but even then, the essentials can all be found in the RFK, Jr. and Trump presidency articles. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 15:13, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Concern over possible false balance and neutrality

I've added some tags to the page to request further review from a medical expert to go over some of the claims made on this page. Particularly, I am concerned over possible WP:MEDRS violations regarding the use of primary sources and single studies to make broad claims about scientific consensus on related health issues.

The page also seemingly cherry-picks positive statements about RFK's views from articles that are not inaccurate per say, but provide a WP:FALSEBALANCE and fail to mention the overall acceptance of such views or the greater medical consensus. Some word choice seems to minimize, sanitize, and cast doubt over the opposition to Kennedy's claims by medical associations and doctors. For instance, by saying only "some" disapprove of them. BootsED (talk) 14:01, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I take a two-week break from AfC, and when I come back, this article (which I rejected, see comments above) is in mainspace and only slightly better. MASSIVE WP:FALSEBALANCE in this page and misrepresentation of sources (e.g. Refs 37 and 38...anyone who still takes Kennedy at his word when he says he wants vaccines to be "more thoroughly tested" is an antivax liar or too stupid to be allowed internet access). Guess I've got cleanup ahead of me. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 21:50, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

AI generated refs

See news. ScienceFlyer (talk) 14:11, 29 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just added to article. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 12:28, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Fluoridation

patently WP:FORUMing Bluethricecreamman (talk) 16:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

As a kitchen and bath designer (Texas Interior Designer #8833), I can tell you clients are taking steps to purify water, which also removes chlorine and fluoride. All have reverse osmosis systems under the kitchen sink to purify drinking and cooking water. I have had a shower filter for many years. Some homes now have whole house water filtration. Fluoride-free toothpaste is now available at super markets and health food stores. People are going to elaborate measures to avoid fluoride. We would welcome it to be eliminated from the public water supply.

Chlorine is used on laundry, as a treatment for air conditioning drain lines and as toilet tabs. Exposures to halogens have increased to historically high levels.

What is the problem? Fluoride and chlorine are halogens which attach to the iodine receptor sites in the human body causing various problems including supression of thyroid hormone. Is this a cause of the obesity epidemic? We have no proof that it is not. 2603:8081:5201:D600:E7BE:AF99:1526:C34A (talk) 16:21, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This MAHA thing is obviously notable but this article was beyond poorly written/structured

Remember: this is the Make America Healthy Again article, NOT the Robert F. Kennedy Jr. article or a proxy for it. The article MUST be about the "MAHA" movement and sourced to that. It's not for Kennedy's history, or anything on him on a personal level. Every sentence is supposed to be through the MAHA prism first and foremost always. -- Very Polite Person (talk) 16:38, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

disagree… MAHA originates most directly from RFK and is linked to his personal views. as proxy leader of movement inclusion of his pov probably matters Bluethricecreamman (talk) 17:01, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

His own page is a platform for his views as allowed and only as allowed under policy/wiki MOS and local rules; even the government is subservient to that, as it's supporters are. This is the MAHA article. Please by all means improve the article, but ensure to be in strident deference to Wikipedia rules! Or else it may get reverted. :( -- Very Polite Person (talk) 17:09, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Very Polite Person On the RFK Jr. talk page, I suggested that a new page be created "HHS during the second Trump administration". As with this article, I think it's important that it's high quality and well-sourced, and I haven't had the necessary time to dedicate to it. ScienceFlyer (talk) 17:48, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is both true that MAHA originates most directly from RFK Jr. and is linked to his personal views while at the same time representing something a bit broader. His political fortune as such is dependent on his supporters, but they are mostly acting in lock-step at this point solely because they see the elites/medical establishment/big pharma/food industry as the common enemy. They are content to sublimate their (pretty vast) individual differences of approach, ideology, and emphasis as they work to, y'know, destroy. This is the fundamental glue that holds MAHA together and RFK Jr. certainly acts the figurehead for this unifying idea. jps (talk) 17:15, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if a truly and clinically, brutally NPOV-by-wikipedia standards "Make America Healthy Again" article would be well-received by MAHA enthusiats. I hope someone has energy and time to write it proper like, head bowed to Wikipedia rules, which outrank god and country locally! -- Very Polite Person (talk) 17:18, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Part of the problem is that MAHA has an opposition to scholarship which Wikipedia seems to be somewhat partial to. This will likely mean that no matter how laser-focused our attention is to following WP:PAGs, ultimately we will end up upsetting the enthusiasts when they see us link out to the vaccines and autism article or water fluoridation controversy. jps (talk) 17:21, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that folks decided to make this a fork of the main article for Kennedy. The NPOV angle is moot if we're arguing over issues not about the subject of the article, which use sources that are themselves also not about the subject of the article. GMG ^talk 17:31, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this should not be treated as a fork of the RFK Jr. article. jps (talk) 18:33, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Very Polite Person: You may want to slow your roll a little. Tacking on six different cleanup banners and a cn on every third word in the lead is not terribly helpful. GMG ^talk 18:19, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
And in a list with commas, the CN tags go after the comma like this,^{[citation needed]} not before like^{[citation needed]}, that. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 18:41, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, I'm done! I just tagged everything I would reasonably demand of myself to source if I were primary author of this article. Please amend as needed. -- Very Polite Person (talk) 18:54, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This look like disruption. The first "cn" I checked about a chronic disease epidemic, was plainly verified by the following source. WTF? Bon courage (talk) 19:11, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the cn tags from the lede. Feel free to put the list of things you want sources for as requests on this page. jps (talk) 20:00, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Holding area

Extended content

Chronic illnesses

In May 2025, Kennedy's MAHA Commission released its report on chronic illnesses in children and adolescents.^{[citation needed]} The report cited over 500 references, of which seven were nonexistent^[1]^[2] and showed signs of having been AI-generated.^[3] The report was soon replaced with an edited version, which removed the false references..^{[citation needed]}

References

^ Kennard, Emily; Manto, Margaret (2025-05-29). "The MAHA report cites studies that don't exist". NOTUS. Retrieved 2025-05-31.
^ "White House acknowledges problems in RFK Jr.'s 'Make America Healthy Again' report". NPR.org. 2025-05-29. Retrieved 2025-05-31.
^ Weber, Lauren; Gilbert, Caitlin (May 29, 2025). "White House MAHA Report may have garbled science by using AI, experts say". The Washington Post. Retrieved May 29, 2025.

GMG ^talk 20:11, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Tallie, L. S., & Popkin, B. (2025). The promise and pitfalls of “Make America Healthy Again.” The Lancet. Diabetes & Endocrinology, 13(4), 274–275. https://doi.org/10.1016/S2213-8587(25)00060-9

https://www.statnews.com/2025/03/26/maha-movement-state-laws-rfk-jr-make-america-healthy-again/

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/04/02/rfk-jr-s-maha-movement-has-a-fatal-flaw-00263926 (Note: opinion piece)

https://www.medicaleconomics.com/view/rfk-jr-s-make-america-healthy-again-movement-explained (Note: source soft pedals controversies related to science as it is focused on the business side of medicine)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/05/03/maha-rfk-jr-state-legislation-hhs/83323250007/

https://torreydc.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/TAG-The-MAHA-Movement-and-What-it-Entails.pdf Lobbying group's "fact sheet" (from the perspective of a Republican lobbyist with ties to agriculture)

https://www.axios.com/2024/11/14/maha-movement-federal-health-agencies

https://rollcall.com/2025/02/06/the-maha-movement-in-congress-who-and-what-to-watch/

https://coppercourier.com/2024/10/31/maha-trump-rfk/

https://www.statnews.com/2024/10/31/maha-make-america-healthy-again-trump-rfk-jr/ (Note: opinion)

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/13/politics/video/maha-make-america-healthy-again-rfk-jr-bash-digvid-ip

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-robert-f-kennedy-make-america-healthy-again/

That's enough for now.

jps (talk) 19:09, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Which proposals

Proposals of the movement, such as the increased regulation of food and pharmaceutical companies I suspect that only those two have received bipartisan support and were praised by Democratic Colorado governor Jared Polis and Independent Vermont senator Bernie Sanders. If that is the case, the sentence should be reworded to make that clear. If not, those other proposals should be named. --Hob Gadling (talk) 20:50, 13 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

[notus1-1] Kennard, Emily; Manto, Margaret (2025-05-29). "The MAHA report cites studies that don't exist". NOTUS. Retrieved 2025-05-31.

[npr1-2] "White House acknowledges problems in RFK Jr.'s 'Make America Healthy Again' report". NPR.org. 2025-05-29. Retrieved 2025-05-31.

[Weber-3] Weber, Lauren; Gilbert, Caitlin (May 29, 2025). "White House MAHA Report may have garbled science by using AI, experts say". The Washington Post. Retrieved May 29, 2025.

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