Talk:List of fictional transgender characters

Koi Boi

Koi Boi is a canonically trans superhero from The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl and should be added to the list 70.19.50.150 (talk) 19:35, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Ok. Do you have a reliable source to show that is the case? Historyday01 (talk) 20:33, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

sakura ōgami?

maybe add Sakura Ōgami from Danganronpa (Trigger Happy Havoc)?

"Some would say that a woman is incapable of becoming the strongest human alive. I want to prove them wrong." Inukoinu (talk) 08:42, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm not particularly familiar with the source material but as far as I can tell she's just an extremely muscular cis woman? --Pokelova (talk) 09:06, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Scaramouche?

I would argue that Scaramouche from the game "Genshin Impact" should be included. He is intentionally written to imply he is Female to Male, though the word "transgender" is never brought up due to the publishing location of the game and their laws. The game tells you he was created by a female goddess to act as her vessel, but was tossed aside for being overemotional. The vessel we see her use during the events of the game is female, and idenitical to her goddess form, implying he must have been created as female as well; this is especially bolstered by the fact he was created (subconciously or conciously) to imitate the goddesses deceased sister, through narrative and design implication. Many of his accessories and various clothing items we see in both animated flash backs and in-game are historically female japanese costuming. It is also stated he was "changed" in some way by a mad scientist character, "Dottore", of which we are never exactly told what underwent (besides various 'power' video game lore jargon). Another character in his written backstory says the words, "you are neither man, nor mechanism." when speaking about his nature as a puppet, which can also be read as a double entendre. Another quote from the same/related text reads: "In Inazuma's traditional theater, there is a certain character known as "Kunikuzushi." Such characters are often schemers and usurpers of nations. At the end of his wanderings, he chose this name as an act of his own will. And as for the name he had once used, even he no longer remembered it."

Personally, I believe that he is at least a transgender allegory, and at most a clear representation of a trans male/genderqueer character in a censored video game. What do you guys think? 73.36.127.156 (talk) 00:11, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

agreed 204.83.108.66 (talk) 00:37, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Agreed 2603:6000:C609:59A:8C50:707B:9BFC:EAF (talk) 00:37, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

This is a mass of WP:OR unfortunately. You'll need to provide some reliable secondary sourcing that makes this analysis. -- ferret (talk) 01:01, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

heres some of the sources of things i mention above, ill be able to find some more stuff tommorow. heres the basics at least

animated backstory cutscene (official youtube channel)

Genshin wiki containing his backstory text, taken directly from the game. Contains two of the quotes I reference above, as well as another chunk of lore referring to him as having been "born with a face fairer than any other."

Profile dialogue copied directly from character "Ei/Raiden Shogun", his creator: (About Kunikuzushi): "He came about as a byproduct of creating the Shogun. Perhaps it's because I feel like I owe him something, but I do not wish to assert control over him." source 1 source 2

related character referring to him as Ei's creation, as well as referring to him as "It"

appearance of a katsugi veil, a female accesory. he is shown wearing one in the animated cutscene. (image of its appearance when worn)

"Archon Quest, Chapter III, Act III - Dreams, Emptiness, Deception, Part 2: The Gaze From a Certain God" ingame contains the reveal of him as the Shoguns prototype. 73.36.127.156 (talk) 02:18, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

This is all still WP:OR, or unreliable sources like Wikia/Fandom (Which are unreliable per WP:USERG). You need a reliable source, such as those listed at WP:VG/S, that are commenting on this. We're not allowed to make claims on our own like "Was wearing a katsugi, therefore seems to have been female". -- ferret (talk) 02:27, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

ooohhh, i see what you mean. sadly besides direct quotes from the game and a lot of online conversation/analysis/general 'acceptance' etc, there doesn't seem to be something like a kotaku/polygon article addressing it, it seems mostly niche. I'll update with a wikia approved reliable source discussing it if it shows up. thanks for the corrections! 73.36.127.156 (talk) 02:48, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Raine

I would argue that Raine from The Owl House should be included, being non-binary. 204.209.74.247 (talk) 18:32, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Well, people can be non-binary and not be trans. From what I've read, usually people aren't non-binary and trans at the same time, but in some instances, people can be both. In the case of Raine specifically, he was also confirmed as trans (along with confirmed as non-binary) As the entry on the List of animated series with LGBT characters: 2020–present page (which I think I wrote) notes "...Raine is Disney's first non-binary character, having been confirmed as non-binary by Avi Roque, who voices the character. Roque later made the additional statement that Raine is transgender and transmasculine. In a similar vein, art by series storyboarder King Pecora would depict the character with apparent top surgery scars." I'll add the entry later today. Historyday01 (talk) 19:53, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Nocturne

There's also Nocturne from Baldurs Gate 3 who is a trans woman and voiced by Abigail Thorne 147.147.25.65 (talk) 07:01, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

You are right! Its definitely an oversight that it isn't on this page or List of video games with LGBT characters, despite the fact it is DIRECTLY stated in Abigail's Wikipedia page:

Thorn voiced Nocturne, a secondary character in the video game Baldur's Gate 3. The role included motion capture. Sarah Guinevere Smit of Rock Paper Shotgun lauded Nocturne's transgender identity, characterisation and diary entries. The Mary Sue's Madeline Carpou described the character as "an incredibly sweet, lovely presence".

If I have time, I'll adapt that text and add it to List of fictional trans characters#Games and similar entry on the List of video games with LGBT characters page. Historyday01 (talk) 13:42, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Arashi Narukami

Hello! I was wondering if it was possible to add Arashi Narukami from Ensemble Stars! on this list? Extensively, throughout the source material, Arashi has various discussions regarding her gender identity in monologues or with other characters. I believe the Beasts story is to be the most popular example of this. Please scroll to 'Center of the World 7'. A character describes Arashi to "be a woman on the inside" here and notes how Arashi has a "lady-like tone", which is a descriptor that is consistently used to describe her way of speaking. There is a problem, however, in the fact that the offical translation and localization team for the English version of Ensemble Stars! uses he/him pronouns on Arashi. Though majority of the fandom uses she/her for Arashi and perceives her as a trans woman, the offical English version presents Arashi as a cis man with feminine traits. There has been a push, multiple pushes actually, to change Arashi's (and even another character's!) pronouns to she/her but it has not seen a successful change. The only reason why I'm saying this is because I don't know if it interferes with her eligibility to be on this list, despite the popular fandom belief that she is a trans woman. Anyways, I am happily able to divulge any more information or source materials if neccessary. Thank you! Matessave (talk) 21:43, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for not replying sooner, but like every other character on here, if there are reliable sources which Arashi Narukami as trans, then add her. Otherwise, no. Historyday01 (talk) 19:18, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Jules Vaughn

Reminder to add Jules Vaughn. Thanks! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:46, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

I would, but the TV characters were spun off into their own list a while ago (there were too many of them), and Jules has an entry on List of transgender characters in television. I checked. Historyday01 (talk) 19:34, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Was Yamato from One Piece really confirmed as a trans man?

I thought the jury was still out on whether they were trans or not, and that there were multiple arguments for and against it (Yamato went into the men's hot springs at one point, and the official translations interpret them to be male - which is an argument for saying they're a trans man - but the Vivre Card said they were female with no acknowledgment of anything regarding being male, and Yamato was shown in a cover drawing which had only women in it - which is an argument for saying they're not a trans man)? Pineways (talk) 20:53, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

Hmm, well, the two CBR sources cited say Yamato is a trans man, but I don't know anything beyond that. I did find some sources about this here, here, here, and here which state that Yamato is a trans man. But perhaps the controversy can be noted in the entry? Historyday01 (talk) 00:29, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

I don't really fully trust those sources as they seem like the equivalent of tabloids but for the anime/manga industry to me (in lieu of a better phrase), but if the shoe fits... Pineways (talk) 11:03, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, that is a fair point. I don't see any official website with character bios attached. And I'd say those can be sort of tabloidish but sometimes they are fine. Historyday01 (talk) 11:50, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Page title

Should the article be called List of fictional transgender characters? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 03:43, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Well, it was changed to the current name due to a discussion some years ago (back in June 2020). The main user who proposed it (@User:IseDaByThatEditsTheBoat) has since deleted her user page (but not her talk page), while @User:Netoholic and @User:IJBall were opposed, and @User:King of Hearts, the aforementioned IseDaByThatEditsTheBoat, and @User:Sceptre were in favor. I'd personally be okay with whatever term (trans or transgender in this case) is the common name. Historyday01 (talk) 12:04, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

@Historyday01 Proposed move discussion below. Thanks! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 12:50, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. Historyday01 (talk) 18:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 6 June 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus to move, noting that further discussion is required for the finer details of whether transsexual characters should continue to be included, as this is the status quo, or listed separately elsewhere. These discussions can continue on the respective talk pages, as suggested, and do not effect this move request. (non-admin closure) CNC (talk) 13:53, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

---

List of fictional trans characters → List of fictional transgender characters – Per parent article Transgender --Another Believer _(Talk) 12:50, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Notice placed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 15:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

See last RM Talk:List of fictional trans characters/Archive 1#Requested move 26 May 2020 as well as prior merge discussion further up the page. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 16:31, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Note: Can you share information showing that "transgender" is a common name as compared to using "trans"? This is in-line with my comment above. Historyday01 (talk) 18:16, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

The broader question is whether transgender is the best title. The note in the lead states transsexual people are included in the definition here, although I only find a couple of mentions of this on the list currently. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 00:26, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

I think in any case, transsexual people would probably need to be included because there would never be enough characters for their own page. As I said above, I'm okay with whatever word ("trans" or "transgender") is the more common name. Historyday01 (talk) 14:35, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

My sense is that both are quite common, which Ngram seems to confirm.[1][2] The shorter trans may be viewed as informal and therefore improper for an article title. For example, GLAAD suggests trans can be used on second and subsequent reference after spelling out transgender. On the other hand, trans is potentially more inclusive of transexual characters. The list only includes two characters explicitly described as transsexual (that I could find—I did a text search): List of fictional trans characters#Mariandale and List of fictional trans characters#Unnamed. The note appended to the opening sentence suggests transsexual characters are intended to be included. The nom states the parent article is Transgender, but it is arguably Media portrayals of transgender people, which includes many descriptions of older works from before this terminology was in use. So, I am torn. Transgender is probably more encyclopedic—but only if it is not over-precise/too narrow—and it is more consistent with the titles of other articles, although it is not clear that the scope and definition of all these articles is the same. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 04:01, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

You make good points. I think transgender is more encyclopedic but I could also see trans being more inclusive of transexual characters. As the person who created Media portrayals of transgender people since it didn't exist when I created it (also, other LGBTQ+ identities had similar pages and it seemed odd there wasn't one for trans people). Hmm, perhaps a compromise could be remove the transexual characters, so that the scope of the two articles is the same, and add them to the Transsexual#In the media? If there's only *two* of them, as you noted, this wouldn't be hard to do (and then we could add a note saying something about how transexual characters are mentioned on the transexual page or something). And like all decisions on Wikipedia, this could be revisited in the future. Also, I'd be willing to revisit the scope of Media portrayals of transgender people and would be happy to have a discussion about it at Talk:Media portrayals of transgender people. That page isn't perfect by any stretch, although it is better... than some other media portrayals pages I've created, which I really need to update.Historyday01 (talk) 13:39, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Agreed. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 15:51, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

• Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:16, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

  Just curious. If the page name *was* changed, would you be fine with keeping the transsexual characters on the page? Because there's been some discussion above between myself and MYCETEAE about this, so I thought I'd ask your thoughts on this while the discussion is ongoing.Historyday01 (talk) 13:37, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

  The term transsexual is a subset of transgender... according to our own article. So yes. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:02, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

• Support move as a more encyclopedic title that accurately describes (almost all of) the content and is consistent with the title of other articles about transgender people. Remove the two transsexual characters and add them to Transsexual#In the media, which can be added to See also or in a hatnote in this article. Concerns about the scope and content of related articles can be addressed on their respective Talk pages. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 15:49, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.