Talk:Knitting Factory

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This page was proposed for deletion by Qinifer (talk · contribs) on 10 March 2025 with the comment:
This article does not meet Wikipedia’s notability guidelines and lacks significant, independent, reliable sources demonstrating lasting encyclopedic value. The article focuses almost exclusively on the business history of the venue, with an emphasis on Michael Dorf to the near exclusion of anyone else to the point where it was copied and pasted from Michael Dorf's website, while failing to establish any broader cultural, artistic, or historical impact. It provides no substantial coverage of the venue’s role in shaping music or entertainment beyond a surface-level business narrative.

Additionally, this article and the related articles mentioned below have a long history of promotional editing, including undisclosed paid editing and conflict-of-interest violations, as flagged multiple times on the Talk pages. Previous revisions contained material copied from the subject’s own website, and repeated attempts have been made to frame the venue as part of a self-promotional ecosystem tied to Michael Dorf and City Winery—both of which have also been flagged for promotional editing.

Given the pattern of promotional activity across multiple related articles, this article appears to exist primarily as a business promotion profile rather than a neutral, verifiable, and encyclopedic entry. It lacks independent coverage that would justify its standalone existence.

Notability

Here is a random selection of the hundreds if not thousands of articles about the knitting factory, more than enough to establish notability for what is one of the most important and influential music venues in the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/arts/music/10knit.html?_r=1&ref=music&oref=slogin http://www.nme.com/news/various-artists/38007 http://www.villagevoice.com/locations/knitting-factory-main-space-144216/

Those are just the first three links from Google News for today.

Aroundthewayboy (talk) 14:33, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

question

I see that there is references section and an external links section taht seem to b the same gerenal thing.. should they b one?--Applegigs (talk) 00:50, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Where did the name come from? Did Dorf and Appel just make it up? Or is it an old garment warehouse? Sluggoster (talk) 06:05, 2 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

question

Is the biography up to date? The bio linked here has a bunch of info that’s not included on this article. They launched a restaurant division with three locations, they opened a new venue in Long Beach, CA, and they promote shows now at more venues than they own. Should the new info be added?--Alexanderjames88 (talk) 01:07, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100214064123/http://blogs.laweekly.com/westcoastsound/off-the-record/knitting-factory-hollywood-clo/ to http://blogs.laweekly.com/westcoastsound/off-the-record/knitting-factory-hollywood-clo/

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COI Violations

Please see discussion on Talk:Michael Dorf (entrepreneur). - Galatz ^Talk 15:29, 10 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion

@Qinifer:, I am going to remove the Prod notice (but have copied it to this Talk page for reference); the Grove article alone takes this beyond an uncontroversial deletion proposal. See also past discussions on this Talk page. Obviously, you can take it to AFD but I think the concerns that you are listing are not about whether the topic is notable, but more about susceptibility to promotional editing, in which case you may be better seeking page protection? AllyD (talk) 09:56, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@AllyD I acknowledge your point regarding the Grove citation, and agree it substantiates notability sufficiently to avoid an uncontroversial deletion. My main concern, however, remains that the current contents of the article reads as promotional business copy. This content is clearly flagged and tied to paid promotions of Michael Dorf's business ventures (please follow connected articles for Michael Dorf and City Winery for the full picture) generated by outed and flagged employees and relatives of Michael Dorf. This particular page has been flagged explicitly for such paid content. What this article lacks in its contents is providing a neutral encyclopedic overview of cultural or historical significance. A substantial rewrite is necessary, one which relies explicitly on credible sources (such as the Grove reference you mentioned) to articulate genuine cultural impact and influence, removing promotional language and business-oriented details unrelated to notability. Your suggestion of seeking page protection is appreciated, but the immediate priority should be removing promotional content and clearly refocusing on verifiable, culturally relevant information. Perhaps another solution is a merge with the record company article? Qinifer (talk) 15:12, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the need for further credible sources which can supplement the Gary Kennedy / New Grove article, The Wire magazine may have some, for example in issues 50, 74 and 194. Rummaged my pile of old magazines, I unfortunately didn't find these, but I am noting it here for future use. AllyD (talk) 09:28, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wonderful! Much appreciated, @AllyD. Perhaps some online versions or at least some archived references can be found now that we know the issue numbers. With sources like the ones that you have identified, an article can be re-crafted that properly documents the cultural significance of the venue rather than serving as a paid PR business listing. That would do my heart good as well. Qinifer (talk) 15:21, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]