Talk:Jai Shri Ram

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Q1: Why does this article describe Jai Shri Ram negatively?

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Q3: This article says that Jai Shri Ram is used negatively, but I don't believe that it is used in such a way! Who is right?

A3: Please remember that just because you have never seen Jai Shri Ram being used negatively doesn't mean that it is never used negatively. For example, you may have only seen cases where Jai Shri Ram was used positively, but at the same time, other people use the same subject negatively. The article does not say that Jai Shri Ram is always used negatively. On the contrary, it says that Jai Shri Ram has been used negatively in certain situations.

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Sravasti Dasgupta (2 August 2020). "'Biased, anti-Hindu' — campaign begins against Wikipedia after it urges Indians to donate". ThePrint. Retrieved 3 August 2020. A social media campaign, spearheaded by prominent right-wing personalities accusing Wikipedia of being 'anti-Hindu', began trending Saturday, three days after the open-source information website asked Indian users to donate to 'defend Wikipedia's independence'.
Omer Benjakob (5 November 2020). "A vicious culture war is tearing through Wikipedia". Wired (magazine). Retrieved 6 November 2020. The edit was the first in a struggle that raged for more than a year, with one side claiming it constituted a form of "Hinduphobia" and the other side saying it was an accurate portrayal of the religious term, which had been embraced by India's ruling party BJP and, according to some in the media, had become a "dog whistle" for nationalists.

Removed references

This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived.

^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]^[6]^[7]^[8]^[9]^[10]^[11]^[12]^[13]^[14]^[15]^[16]^[17]^[18]^[19]^[20]^[21]^[a]

I removed this massive collection of redundant references. Feel free to reincorporate them into the article. ―Susmuffin ^Talk 18:44, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have gone through the below sources:

(1), (2), (3) have passing mentions of how the slogan was linked to violent incidents.

Same for (7), (8), which additionally provide information on the rise of the BJP and Hindutva.

(9), (15), (21) I have added in the article. SerChevalerie (talk) 13:03, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Adding this video here.^[22] SerChevalerie (talk) 18:28, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Restored to article, bundled with the {{refn}} template to prevent citation overkill. — Newslinger talk 05:20, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References and notes

^ Compare with the usage of Allāhu akbar in Islamic radicalism, over here.

^ Suresh, Mayur (2019-02-01). "The social life of technicalities: 'Terrorist' lives in Delhi's courts" (PDF). Contributions to Indian Sociology. 53 (1): 72–96. doi:10.1177/0069966718812523. ISSN 0069-9667.
^ Menon, Nivedita (2002). "Surviving Gujarat 2002". Economic and Political Weekly. 37 (27): 2676–2678. ISSN 0012-9976. JSTOR 4412315.
^ Engineer, Asghar Ali (1992). "Sitamarhi on Fire". Economic and Political Weekly. 27 (46): 2462–2464. ISSN 0012-9976. JSTOR 4399118.
^ Nussbaum, Martha C. (2008-11-01). "The Clash Within: Democracy and the Hindu Right". Journal of Human Development. 9 (3): 357–375. doi:10.1080/14649880802236565. ISSN 1464-9888.
^ Staples, James (2019-11-02). "Blurring Bovine Boundaries: Cow Politics and the Everyday in South India". South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies. 42 (6): 1125–1140. doi:10.1080/00856401.2019.1669951. ISSN 0085-6401.
^ Gupta, Charu; Sharma, Mukul (1996). "Communal constructions: media reality vs real reality". Race & Class. 38 (1): 1–20. doi:10.1177/030639689603800101. ISSN 0306-3968.
^ Austin, Dennis; Lyon, Peter (1993). "The Bharatiya Janata Party of India". Government and Opposition. 28 (1): 36–50. doi:10.1111/j.1477-7053.1993.tb01304.x. ISSN 0017-257X. JSTOR 44484547.
^ Ramaseshan, Radhika (1990). "The Press on Ayodhya". Economic and Political Weekly. 25 (50): 2701–2704. ISSN 0012-9976. JSTOR 4397088.
^ Sarkar, Sumit (1999). "Conversions and Politics of Hindu Right". Economic and Political Weekly. 34 (26): 1691–1700. ISSN 0012-9976. JSTOR 4408131.
^ Sarkar, Sumit (1993). "The Fascism of the Sangh Parivar". Economic and Political Weekly. 28 (5): 163–167. ISSN 0012-9976. JSTOR 4399339.
^ Ludden, David; Ludden, Professor of History David (April 1996). Contesting the Nation: Religion, Community, and the Politics of Democracy in India. University of Pennsylvania Press. ISBN 978-0-8122-1585-4.
^ Rambachan, Anantanand (2017-04-20). "The Coexistence of Violence and Nonviolence in Hinduism". Journal of Ecumenical Studies. 52 (1): 96–104. doi:10.1353/ecu.2017.0001. ISSN 2162-3937.
^ Gudipaty, Nagamallika (2017), "Television, Political Imagery, and Elections in India", in Ngwainmbi, Emmanuel K. (ed.), Citizenship, Democracies, and Media Engagement among Emerging Economies and Marginalized Communities, Springer International Publishing, pp. 117–145, doi:10.1007/978-3-319-56215-5_6, ISBN 978-3-319-56215-5
^ Mazumdar, Sucheta (1995). "Women on the March: Right-Wing Mobilization in Contemporary India". Feminist Review (49): 1–28. doi:10.2307/1395323. ISSN 0141-7789. JSTOR 1395323.
^ Schultz, Kai; Raj, Suhasini (5 January 2020). "Masked Men Attack Students in Rampage at University in New Delhi". The New York Times. Retrieved 6 January 2020.
^ Brosius, Christiane (2005). "Hindutva's Media Phantasmagorias". Empowering visions : the politics of representation in Hindu nationalism. Anthem Press. p. 95. ISBN 1-84331-134-8. OCLC 52566622.
^ Brosius, Christiane (2007). "The Unwanted Offering. Ubiquity And Success Of Failure In A Ritual Of The Hindu Right". In Hüsken, Ute (ed.). When rituals go wrong mistakes, failure and the dynamics of ritual. Numen. Vol. 115. Brill. ISBN 978-90-474-1988-4. OCLC 928981707.
^ Ghassem-Fachandi, Parvis (2009-08-01). "Bandh in Ahmedabad". Violence: Ethnographic Encounters. Berg. ISBN 978-1-84788-418-3.
^ Salam, Ziya Us. ""Jai Shri Ram": The new battle cry". Frontline. Retrieved 2020-01-10.
^ Daniyal, Shoaib. "'Jai Shri Ram' might be a new slogan – but the use of Ram as a political symbol is 800 years old". Scroll.in. Retrieved 2020-01-10.
^ DelhiJuly 13, Prabhash K. Dutta New; July 13, 2019UPDATED; Ist, 2019 12:28. "Jai Shri Ram: A slogan that changed political contours of India". India Today. Retrieved 2020-01-10. {{cite web}}: |first3= has numeric name (help)CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link)
^ "On board The Ramayan Express, there are bhajans, chants of Jai Shri Ram and more - YouTube". www.youtube.com. Retrieved 2020-08-01. {{cite web}}: More than one of |work= and |website= specified (help)

Ram slogans before 20th century

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång, in the article 'Jai Shri Ram' might be a new slogan – but the use of Ram as a political symbol is 800 years old, the author writes

Ramjanmabhoomi movement
Note, however, that even at this time, there is still no popular use of “Jai Shri Ram”. Invocations to Ram were conjoined with his wife Sita. “The slogans raised for recitals of Ram Katha that I grew up hearing, were never about Ram as an individual, let alone a warrior,” said veteran journalist Mrinal Pande. “They were about the duo: Bol Siyavar or Siyapat Ramchandra ki jai [victory to Ram, Sita’s husband]. Kindness, grace and inseparability from Sita were qualities publically remembered.”

The journalist claims that in her experience there never were any slogans about Ram as an individual, let alone a warrior; so how is it off-topic or WP:OR to cite examples to the contrary? Yuyutsu Ho (talk) 20:41, 16 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do I understand it correctly that you want

"Journalist Mrinal Pande states:

The slogans raised... were never about Ram as an individual, let alone a warrior. They were about the duo: Bol Siyavar or Siyapat Ramchandra ki jai [victory to Ram, Sita's husband]."

To be followed by something like "However, she is wrong, because [text+source]"? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:22, 16 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Or if this is about the above "Jai Sri Ram Lachmanji ki" again, it's WP:OR since we lack a journalistic or academic source connecting this to the subject of this article. Whoever added that to the article didn't even bother to tell English-readers what it means. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:41, 16 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I had added the following after the quote by Mrinal Pande (diff=prev&oldid=1291431904)—

But in Methodist Quarterly Review, Volume LXII.–1880., Rev. B. H. Badley has mentioned Indian soldiers cheering " Ram Rajah Ki Jai ! " and " Ram Chandra Ki Jai ! " while leaving the Bombay harbor for Malta.^[1] And J. F. Fanthome, in his book Mariam: A Story of the Indian Mutiny of 1857 (1896), mentions Hindus using the war cry of "Jai Sri Ram Lachmanji ki" ("Victory to Lord Rama and Lakshmana") against the British during the Indian Rebellion of 1857, while Muhammadans yelled "Ek nara Haidari, ya Husein".^[2]

The slogan from the 2nd source had a translation, I could add it for the ones from the first source too, which are essentially the same as Jai Sri Ram but phrased differently. But my point is, there is evidence that even before the 20th century, slogans were raised about Ram as an individual, celebrating him as a warrior. Yuyutsu Ho (talk) 21:01, 17 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

^ Badley, B. H. (January 1880). "The Great Epic of India". Methodist Magazine and Quarterly Review. Vol. LXII. G. Lane & P. B. Sandford. p. 112.
^ Fanthome, J. F. (1896). Mariam: A Story of the Indian Mutiny of 1857. Chandraprabha Press, Company LD. p. 18.

[22] Compare with the usage of Allāhu akbar in Islamic radicalism, over here.

[1] Suresh, Mayur (2019-02-01). "The social life of technicalities: 'Terrorist' lives in Delhi's courts" (PDF). Contributions to Indian Sociology. 53 (1): 72–96. doi:10.1177/0069966718812523. ISSN 0069-9667.

[2] Menon, Nivedita (2002). "Surviving Gujarat 2002". Economic and Political Weekly. 37 (27): 2676–2678. ISSN 0012-9976. JSTOR 4412315.

[3] Engineer, Asghar Ali (1992). "Sitamarhi on Fire". Economic and Political Weekly. 27 (46): 2462–2464. ISSN 0012-9976. JSTOR 4399118.

[4] Nussbaum, Martha C. (2008-11-01). "The Clash Within: Democracy and the Hindu Right". Journal of Human Development. 9 (3): 357–375. doi:10.1080/14649880802236565. ISSN 1464-9888.

[5] Staples, James (2019-11-02). "Blurring Bovine Boundaries: Cow Politics and the Everyday in South India". South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies. 42 (6): 1125–1140. doi:10.1080/00856401.2019.1669951. ISSN 0085-6401.

[6] Gupta, Charu; Sharma, Mukul (1996). "Communal constructions: media reality vs real reality". Race & Class. 38 (1): 1–20. doi:10.1177/030639689603800101. ISSN 0306-3968.

[7] Austin, Dennis; Lyon, Peter (1993). "The Bharatiya Janata Party of India". Government and Opposition. 28 (1): 36–50. doi:10.1111/j.1477-7053.1993.tb01304.x. ISSN 0017-257X. JSTOR 44484547.

[8] Ramaseshan, Radhika (1990). "The Press on Ayodhya". Economic and Political Weekly. 25 (50): 2701–2704. ISSN 0012-9976. JSTOR 4397088.

[9] Sarkar, Sumit (1999). "Conversions and Politics of Hindu Right". Economic and Political Weekly. 34 (26): 1691–1700. ISSN 0012-9976. JSTOR 4408131.

[10] Sarkar, Sumit (1993). "The Fascism of the Sangh Parivar". Economic and Political Weekly. 28 (5): 163–167. ISSN 0012-9976. JSTOR 4399339.

[11] Ludden, David; Ludden, Professor of History David (April 1996). Contesting the Nation: Religion, Community, and the Politics of Democracy in India. University of Pennsylvania Press. ISBN 978-0-8122-1585-4.

[12] Rambachan, Anantanand (2017-04-20). "The Coexistence of Violence and Nonviolence in Hinduism". Journal of Ecumenical Studies. 52 (1): 96–104. doi:10.1353/ecu.2017.0001. ISSN 2162-3937.

[13] Gudipaty, Nagamallika (2017), "Television, Political Imagery, and Elections in India", in Ngwainmbi, Emmanuel K. (ed.), Citizenship, Democracies, and Media Engagement among Emerging Economies and Marginalized Communities, Springer International Publishing, pp. 117–145, doi:10.1007/978-3-319-56215-5_6, ISBN 978-3-319-56215-5

[14] Mazumdar, Sucheta (1995). "Women on the March: Right-Wing Mobilization in Contemporary India". Feminist Review (49): 1–28. doi:10.2307/1395323. ISSN 0141-7789. JSTOR 1395323.

[NYT_JNU_6_Jan-15] Schultz, Kai; Raj, Suhasini (5 January 2020). "Masked Men Attack Students in Rampage at University in New Delhi". The New York Times. Retrieved 6 January 2020.

[16] Brosius, Christiane (2005). "Hindutva's Media Phantasmagorias". Empowering visions : the politics of representation in Hindu nationalism. Anthem Press. p. 95. ISBN 1-84331-134-8. OCLC 52566622.

[17] Brosius, Christiane (2007). "The Unwanted Offering. Ubiquity And Success Of Failure In A Ritual Of The Hindu Right". In Hüsken, Ute (ed.). When rituals go wrong mistakes, failure and the dynamics of ritual. Numen. Vol. 115. Brill. ISBN 978-90-474-1988-4. OCLC 928981707.

[18] Ghassem-Fachandi, Parvis (2009-08-01). "Bandh in Ahmedabad". Violence: Ethnographic Encounters. Berg. ISBN 978-1-84788-418-3.

[19] Salam, Ziya Us. ""Jai Shri Ram": The new battle cry". Frontline. Retrieved 2020-01-10.

[20] Daniyal, Shoaib. "'Jai Shri Ram' might be a new slogan – but the use of Ram as a political symbol is 800 years old". Scroll.in. Retrieved 2020-01-10.

[21] DelhiJuly 13, Prabhash K. Dutta New; July 13, 2019UPDATED; Ist, 2019 12:28. "Jai Shri Ram: A slogan that changed political contours of India". India Today. Retrieved 2020-01-10. {{cite web}}: |first3= has numeric name (help)CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link)

[23] "On board The Ramayan Express, there are bhajans, chants of Jai Shri Ram and more - YouTube". www.youtube.com. Retrieved 2020-08-01. {{cite web}}: More than one of |work= and |website= specified (help)

[24] Badley, B. H. (January 1880). "The Great Epic of India". Methodist Magazine and Quarterly Review. Vol. LXII. G. Lane & P. B. Sandford. p. 112.

[25] Fanthome, J. F. (1896). Mariam: A Story of the Indian Mutiny of 1857. Chandraprabha Press, Company LD. p. 18.

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