Talk:Indo-Pakistani war of 1971

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Adding commanders

Taeyab, you have readded Abdul Hamid Khan to the infobox after being reverted because, per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, their inclusion is not supported by body of article. Per Template: Infobox military conflict there is a limit of about seven commanders to be added. This is already exceeded. We should be reducing, not adding to this list. There is also an WP:ONUS to establish a WP:CONSENSUS for your edit before reinstating it. Cinderella157 (talk) 09:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC) [reply]

	Text generated by a large language model (LLM) or similar tool has been collapsed per relevant Wikipedia guidelines. LLM-generated arguments should be excluded from assessments of consensus.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Thank you for your feedback. I would like to address your concerns and provide justification for the inclusion of General Abdul Hamid Khan in the infobox of the 1971 Indo-Pak War Wikipedia page, while adhering to Wikipedia’s policies, including MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, WP:ONUS, and WP:CONSENSUS. General Abdul Hamid Khan served as the Chief of Staff of the Pakistan Army during the 1971 war. He was responsible for overseeing operational planning and coordinating Pakistan's military response on both the Eastern and Western fronts under Military dictator Yahya Khan. His leadership role was crucial, given that General Yahya Khan, the President and Commander-in-Chief, was primarily engaged in political affairs. Multiple reliable sources, including: Shuja Nawaz’s "Crossed Swords: Pakistan, Its Army, and the Wars Within" (2008), Major General Shaukat Raza’s "The Pakistan Army 1947–71" (1984), and Dr. Srinath Raghavan’s "1971: A Global History of the Creation of Bangladesh" (2013) emphasize General Abdul Hamid Khan’s instrumental role in day-to-day military decision-making during the conflict. Several commanders currently listed in the infobox played more limited roles than General Abdul Hamid Khan. For example, commanders leading individual corps or divisions are included, yet Abdul Hamid Khan, who was coordinating operations at a national level, is omitted. This creates an inconsistency in representation. Since Template:Infobox military conflict advises including "the most notable and high-level commanders", his exclusion overlooks a key figure in Pakistan’s military hierarchy during the war. In light of WP:CONSENSUS, I acknowledge the need for broader discussion. I propose opening a discussion on the talk page to seek input from other editors, ensuring that the inclusion or exclusion of commanders follows a consensus-driven approach. Until then, I request that General Abdul Hamid Khan’s addition remain under consideration, supported by the aforementioned sources.

Taeyab (talk) 17:59, 9 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Taeyab, you have added two commanders, including Abdul Hamid Khan. Their presence in the infobox is not supported by the body of the article - ie there is nothing in the article to substantiate why they are key or significant commanders. Per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, the infobox is to summarise key facts from the article - ie without the body of the article telling us why they are in the infobox, they should not be there. This is really not negotiable as a matter of P&G. It is the consensus of the broader community. They have been deleted accordingly. Cinderella157 (talk) 10:05, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the response, i did not add two commanders, rather i removed major general rao farman ali as they held an advisory role and had little command in the overall 1971 war. I have added a paragraph in the western front subtitle which overviews what made General Abdul Hamid Khan a key commander in the war, citations and sources have also been added for further verification in accordance with the MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE Taeyab (talk) 20:13, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Aircrafts losses

~~According to the book: (An Atlas of the war 1971 India - Pakistan by John H.Gill) stated that [page=65]:~~

"Aircraft casualties on each side can only be estimated. Recent research by Indian analysts indicates Pakistan lost 50 combat aircraft and India 56 to 58 to enemy action. These numbers include planes lost in air-to-air battles, shot down by ground fire, or destroyed on the ground by air strikes. In addition, the PAF destroyed at least 13 of its own fighters at Dacca to prevent them falling into Indian hands. These figures are similar to those in the Indian official history that lists Indian losses as 56, but claims 75 "confirmed" losses for Pakistan (including those destroyed by the PAF at Dacca). The IAF lists another 15 of their own as destroyed or damaged owing to accidents. 161 Pakistani accounts list their own aircraft casualties to enemy action as only 24; they claim approximately 104 aircraft kills against the IAF. Pakistani losses to accidents are unknown."

~~Another book: (The Encyclopedia of of 20th Century Warfare by Chris Bishop) [page 384-387] mentioned that India lost 65 aircraft meanwhile Pakistan lost around 75 aircraft.~~

~~So, is i can change the numbers of Aircraft Losses? Comsats777 (talk) 16:01, 11 March 2025 (UTC)~~ WP:SOCKSTRIKE[reply]

Changes to the article should be made in the body of the article and should be made in prose in a way that discusses reports from various sources. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:38, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Does this mean i can make changes about aircraft losses? 😀 Comsats777 (talk) 09:26, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No. It means the infobox may not say things that the body of the article does not say. Rather than changing the infobox, start by proposing how to change the text. The text says "By the end of the war, India had lost 45 aircraft while Pakistan lost 75." What do you think it should say? Estimates of IAF losses range from 45 to 130, and of PAF losses from 24 to 94, ranges that are so broad as to be almost useless. One approach would be to present three pairs of ranges: neutral, Indian official, and Pakistani official. How would you do that, or how else would you set out the wide ranges? --Worldbruce (talk) 13:56, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oo, so in body there's only 1 references is given of Encyclopedia of developing world which itself not primary for wars so i can challenge the previous version because I have two references against one. First is Encyclopedia of 20th Century Warfare and second is An Atlas of 1971 war and both are primarily for wars. Comsats777 (talk) 14:22, 13 March 2025 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE[reply]

Image compilation change

Doesn't this article need an adequate image compilation, as much troops had fought here as at Yom Kippur in 1973. It was a major conflict stretching multiple fronts, someone's initiative would be great. RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 17:35, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism

Requesting to block and revert the edits done by user Aaaas216& as the user has reapeatdly vandalised the pages without discussion. 120.61.226.13 (talk) 17:12, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]