Talk:Grand Slam Single

Why didn't he just run the bases later?

Why should there be a time limit to touch the bases, it's a home run damn it! What if a game or even a series or World Series would've been lost because of something like this? Or are you disqualified from further bases after moving not under your own power (in this case being lifted), in the same way that Dorando Pietri was disqualified for external power? Why can't they just put him down further away then? This rule is not fair. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagittarian Milky Way (talk • contribs) 22:14, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

By lifting him in the air, Zeile allowed Ventura to pass him on the base path, and regardless of whether it's a home run or any other hit, you can't pass another runner on the base paths. 68.81.180.171 (talk) 22:06, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Once the runner on third had touched home and Ventura had touched first, the game was effectively over and all that was left was bean-counting. It seems odd to apply the rules in this particular twilight zone. If some other runner had been tagged out (say after reaching the next base, so no force out) for the third out, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't negate the win. Yet, here we apply the "passing-the-runner" rule. I'd say that they should add a codicil to the rule that on an automatic homer that ends the game, all runners may be assumed to have scored legally. WHPratt (talk) 13:06, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Re: Other instances of "grand slam singles"

Prior to 1920, when a home team player hit the ball out of the playing field with the game-ending winning run already on base (i.e., 9th inning or later), he only received credit for enough bases to score that runner rather than a home run (I remember reading that someone "tripled into the bleachers" in a game account). I'm pretty sure that in at least one of these cases, someone did so with the bases loaded and was only credited with a single. Retrosheet.org lists these reduced-homers, but doesn't state the base configuration, so some additional research would be in order. If found, those cases could be added here. WHPratt (talk) 14:38, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Instance Documented

I found another instance of a “grand slam single.” This could be used as an example for the last paragraph of “Other Instances ...”

Explanation: If a batter hits one out with the bases full to end a game, the hit must have been reduced to a single. I.e., it could only have been scored as a double or a triple if it brought in a runner from second or from first with no runner at third, hence no bases-loaded situation. Ergo, of the 44 “reduced non-homers,” we need only consider the 15 that were scored as singles. The “Game Ending Non-Homers list: https://www.retrosheet.org/ending.htm

In general, Retrosheet’s entries for 19th century games are usually lacking box scores, and those from 1901-1915 are usually lacking play-by-play information.

However, they do have play-by-play from the game of July 18, 1918, Detroit versus the New York Yankees at the Polo Grounds.

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1918/B07182NYA1918.htm

For the second game of a doubleheader, the bottom half of the tenth inning is detailed as follows (emphasis theirs). The score was 2-2.

YANKEES 10TH: Walters singled to left; Keating forced Walters; Gilhooley singled to left [Keating to second]; Caldwell singled to left [Keating to third, Gilhooley to second]; Baker singled [Keating scored, Gilhooley to third, Caldwell to second]; Baker hit ball into upper deck, but under rules of the day only gets credit for a single; 1 R, 4 H, 0 E, 3 LOB. Tigers 2, Yankees 3.

Thus, John Franklin “Home Run” Baker hit a game-ending grand slam by modern rules, but was only credited with a single because of the rules then in force.

The other 14 cases of a game-ending blow being reduced to a single may or may not involve three baserunners. These would have to be researched further from specific game accounts in the press. Even without complete play-by-play, the nature of the final hit might have been described in the coverage.

Actually, careful analysis of the box score can serve to rule out some of them as possible “grand-slam singles.” Example; consider the game of September 28, 1908, in which Cy Seymour had a “reduced” non-homer.
https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1908/B09280NY11908.htm

It seems obvious from the individual runs and RBIs and other numbers that, in the bottom of the ninth, Donlin tripled to tie the game. Barry pinch-ran for him and scored the winning run when Seymour singled over some fence or other. Someone else can try to come up with an alternate scenario that fts the given numbers, but if they can’t, then this definitely wasn’t a grand slam single.
WHPratt (talk) 17:52, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

The June 17, 1884 game can be crossed off the list. The Beaneaters won the coin toss and elected to bat first. They were playing at home, but the first team to bat was decided by a coin flip at the time. John Montgomery Ward, who would become player-manager of the Gothams later that season, was batting second in the order and playing center field. Ward had been notable as a pitcher earlier in his career and gradually transitioned to center field. Sometime during the 1884 season, he stopped pitching altogether. He aggravated an earlier injury to his right arm and was unable to throw. He taught himself the throw left-handed, so he could play center field. His right arm recovered in 1885, and he became an everyday shortstop. What would he think of 21st century players? Ward led off the bottom of the 12th inning for the Gothams with a single. He advanced to third base on what The Boston Daily Globe called a "terrible wild pitch." Second basemen Roger Connor, who would later become the all-time career leader in homeruns with 138, until his record was broken by Babe Ruth, was batting third in the lineup. Connor's RBI single drove in Ward with the winning run. There's no mention of the ball going over the fence. Connor stood 6'3", and his stature was the inspiration for the Gothams' nickname getting changed to Giants. The New York Times boxscore shows the Gothams with 19 errors and the Beaneaters with 6. The Globe charges the Gothams with 15 errors and the Beaneaters with 7. The game was played on a Tuesday morning and was part of Bunker Hill Day celebrations in Boston. The Beaneaters hosted the Quakers in an afternoon game, which they lost, 7–2. The Gothams hit the road to Providence for an afternoon game of their own with the eventual 1884 NL champion Grays, which they lost, 9–0. Taxman1913 (talk) 04:10, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

The Grays trailed, 4–3, batting with two outs and no runners on base in the bottom of the ninth inning at home on August 20, 1885. Hall of Fame pitcher Charles Radbourn, batting eighth in the order, doubled. Right fielder Paul Radford, batting ninth, singled. Leadoff batter Mike Hines, playing center field, singled to end the game. There is no mention of a stolen base in the story, and none listed in the boxscore. It is not explained in the story how Radford scored, presumably, from first base on a single. Beaneaters pitcher Jim Whitney is charged with two wild pitches in the boxscore, but we don't know when they happened. The Beaneaters committed seven errors, and one (or more) of them could have contributed to the winning run. There's no mention of Hines's hit going over the fence. Anyway, no grand slam single here. Taxman1913 (talk) 04:47, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Billy Hamilton led off for the Phillies in the bottom of the ninth of a game tied at 5 with a double on June 5, 1890. The Bridegrooms retired Eddie Burke and Al Myers. Hall of Famer Sam Thompson followed with a two-out single over the left field fence. The Philadelphia Inquirer story includes this excerpt:

Besides playing a brilliant game in the field, Samuel smacked the ball all over the lot, and in order to make sure of Hamilton scoring the winning run in the ninth, he put it beyond the fence. A single hit to the outfield would have done just as well, but Sam wasn't taking any chances. Hamilton might have fell and broke his leg. It was a red-hot day, and Sam refrained from making a tour of the bases, which accounts for his home run drive being recorded as a single.

This statement isn't completely consistent with what is presented from other sources earlier in this thread, i.e. that a ball over the fence was not a home run before 1920, if the winning run was on base. Perhaps in the early days, it was gentlemanly behavior to not circle the bases and rub it in, when the outcome was already decided. Thompson certanly didn't need to present statistics to an arbitrator to determine his salary the following season. In any case, the article implies that Thompson could have circled the bases and been credited with a home run. Taxman1913 (talk) 05:45, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

Ward's Wonders were batting last in their August 16, 1890 game with the Players League Athletics. The score was tied at 1 in the bottom of the ninth, Lou Bierbauer, who would soon after play a role in the naming of the Pirates, led off with a single to center field. The Athletics retired Dave Orr and Jack McGeachey on fly balls. Bill Joyce hit the ball over the center field fence to win the game, 2–1, but not without controversy. According to The Brooklyn Citizen:

The umpire decided that where only one run was needed to decide a game only the first run counted. A dispute arose over the decision, but the umpire stood firm, and the players scrambled off the field.

This stands in contrast to the news story about the Bridegroooms–Phillies game earlier in the same season, but this was a Players League game, and that was a National League game.

Kelly's Killers were batting last in their May 7, 1891 game at the Reds. Emmett Seery was on first base with two outs in the bottom of the 14th inning, when Hall of Famer King Kelly, manager, captain and starting catcher for the Killers, hit the ball over the left field fence, just out of reach of Duke Farrell for a 10–9 win. According to The Boston Daily Globe,

Seery had started on the round of the bases as soon as his captain had hit the ball, and when Farrell with a look of unutterable disgust saw the flying sphere settle over the fence just too high for him to reach, Seery was past third and making the dust fly on the home stretch, while Kelly, who had stopped just past first base, turned a cartwheel and a back somersault in the exuberance of his joy.

So, Ozzie Smith is not the originator of the backflip on the baseball diamond. Willard Mains earned a 14-inning complete game victory. He gave up nine runs, six of them earned, in the first seven innings and followed that with seven shutout innings. Both teams went to see A Night's Frolic at the Park Theatre after the game. Despite needing Seery to advance three bases to score, Kelly was credited with only a single. A pattern is emerging that players in this situation during this era might just make sure they get to first base and stop there. Taxman1913 (talk) 08:07, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

The Giants batted last playing at the Browns on July 7, 1892. There was no grand slam single in this game. Hall of Famer Buck Ewing drove in Jack Doyle for the winning run in the bottom of the ninth inning of a 5–4 Giants victory. The bases could not have been loaded, because Doyle was batting third in the order, and Ewing was batting fourth. The New York Times story says the hit was a double, but he was not credited with a double in the boxscore. The story does not say which base Doyle occupied, but he did have both a double and a stolen base in the game. So, he could have scored from second base.

The Colonels scored three runs in the eighth inning and one more in the ninth to force extra innings on May 13, 1893. The Pirates, batting last at home, rallied in the 10th inning. Frank Shugart led off the inning by getting hit by a pitch. Elmer "Mike" Smith followed with walk, and Jake Beckley sacrificed. Denny Lyons was walked intentionally to load the bases. Lou Bierbauer, source of the Pirates' moniker, "lifted the ball clear over the shortstop's head and the necessary run was scored," according to The Pittsburg Press, which said the hit was good for three bases. The accompanying boxscore credits Bierbauer with a triple. However, the Pirates were credited with only one run on the play in the 6–5 win. The Philadelphia Times says Bierbauer "hammered out a single" with the bases loaded. The story also gives a different account of the inning, saying Shugart was hit by a pitch, followed by walks to Smith and Beckley and then Bierbauer's single. This ignores Lyons's turn in the batting order. So, the Pittsburg account appears more reliable (and was probably written by someone who actually attended the game). The boxscore in The Philadelphia Times does not credit Bierbauer with a triple. While this occured with the bases loaded in a tie game, the newspaper accounts do not indicate the ball left the park. I don't think this was a grand slam single. Taxman1913 (talk) 16:04, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

References

Taxman1913 (talk) 04:10, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

A Singular Grand Slam

Just today I noted that someone had uploaded video from the game of 29 September 2012, Washington at St. Louis.

In the first inning, Washington's Michael Morse batted with the bases full and one out. He hit a deep drive to right field that appeared to bounce off the top of the wall. The base runners got a bit confused, and Morse who was running towards second base had to reverse his path when the other runners stopped at their next base. Morse was thrown out attempting to get back to first base. It appeared that the play would be scored as a one-RBI single and batter out overrunning first base. However, the umpires reviewed the video and noted that the ball had touched objects beyond the wall, and changed the ruling to a home run.

Here's the description from Retrosheet.org's play-by-play:

NATIONALS 1ST: Werth was called out on strikes; Harper singled to center; Zimmerman doubled to left [Harper to third]; LaRoche walked; Morse homered to right [Harper scored, Zimmerman scored, LaRoche scored]; Michael Morse's fly hit just a sign just above the RF fence and caromed back onto the field; the ball was ruled in play; Bryce Harper scored from 3B, Ryan Zimmerman ran from 2B and stopped at 3B; Adam LaRoche, running from 1B, rounded 2B and realized that Zimmerman had stopped, so LaRoche headed back to 2B; Morse was almost to 2B and had to run back to 1B but was tagged out by Skip Schumaker, who had caught the throw from Carlos Beltran in RF; 1B umpire Chris Guccione, who had ruled the ball in play, spoke briefly with acting crew chief Jeff Nelson, who had called Morse out; Nelson watched the replay and overturned the call to a home run; since there had been some confusion on the bases, including a putout, Nelson sent all runners back to their original places and had them run the bases; Morse ran the bases backwards, retouching 2B and 1B on his way back to HP; when he returned to HP, he heard his teammates in the dugout yelling for him to swing an imaginary bat; catcher Yadier Molina repeated that, so Morse took a swing and all four runners scored on the recreated home run; Nationals TV play-by-play announcer Bob Carpenter called the 'homer' with his signature 'See-You-Later!' as Morse's imaginary ball cleared the wall; Desmond struck out; Espinosa struck out; 4 R, 3 H, 0 E, 0 LOB. Nationals 4, Cardinals 0.

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2012/B09290SLN2012.htm

Washington won 6-4. Here we have an example of a single-turned-grandslam. Perhaps it warrants a mention in this article. WHPratt (talk) 20:53, 28 June 2025 (UTC)