Talk:Giovanni Gentile

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Giovanni Gentile was copied or moved into Fascism with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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Gentile = not a socialist

As Gentile was an early philosopher of Fascism, classifying him as a socialist in the lead when 1: Fascism is a direct counter to socialism, 2: No mention of his alleged socialist ties are made in the article, and 3: The only source that calls Gentile a socialist is from a fringe right-wing website, there is no question that the moniker "socialist" does not belong in the lead or in the article at all. Etzedek24 ^{(Would it kill ya to leave an edit summary?)} 18:19, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A. James Gregor's detailed article from the esteemed Journal of the History of Ideas (among countless other sources that you've hidden away as "forum-like discussion") says otherwise... or at least shows how deeply Gentile was influenced by Marx and socialism. https://www.jstor.org/stable/2707846 You're blocking literally all attempts to bring this fact to light. Your political bias is showing. Be objective. Bzzzing (talk) 16:56, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Bzzzing. It is no coincidence that Giovanni Gentile - the creator of fascism, was openly inspired by the likes of Marx and the article will be updated to show this, as it used to.Glaaaastonbury88 (talk) 08:16, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Response to third opinion request:

Correct. François Robere (talk) 18:57, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If we're talking about World Net Daily, this has been found to be unreliable over and over at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard, most recently (afaik) at RS/N Archive 113 also at (1, 2, 3, 4). If you wanted an updated opinion on this, you could open a request at WP:RS/N quoting these links, and asking whether this consensus still holds. Hope this helps, Mathglot (talk) 09:47, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Forum-like discussion

::It's common to avoid talking about it, because it's uncomfortable to many people... but Gentile absolutely was a socialist. His views openly talk about it... he even quotes Marx repeatedly. Also, the view that "Fascism is a direct counter to socialism" is not technically correct... it's what's called "folk wisdom". The economics of Gentile's Fascism are an almost exact copy of Marx's socialism. I know there will be a great deal of argument here, but you simply need to read his work. Bzzzing (talk) 01:33, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Gentile was not a socialist. Full stop. This argument has been had before, and it is not going to happen again. See the thread. Etzedek24 ^{(I'll talk at ya) (Check my track record)} 01:42, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Gentile WAS a socialist. Full stop. Your argument has been made before, and it very likely will happen again, because as I said, people don't want socialism and fascism to be connected in any way, despite the fact that they very clearly are. You're also the person who said socialism was the "direct counter" to fascism. I'll ask any of my colleagues in the economics department if that's the case, because you obviously think I'm biased... somehow I think I know what they'll say. Bzzzing (talk) 09:32, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In any case, this talk page isn't meant to be a forum for discussion of the subject. Either make a (sourced) change or stop posting (but any change you make will be against consensus and will be reverted anyway). The material that claimed Gentile was a socialist was removed because the source provided was unreliable. Etzedek24 ^{(I'll talk at ya) (Check my track record)} 16:07, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

RfC re: sourcing of socialist claim

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Isn't really any need of an RfC right now, as of yet, as outlined by Mathglot Galobtter (pingó mió) 19:30, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Should [http://www.wnd.com/2017/08/fascisms-karl-marx-man-the-left-doesnt-want-you-to-meet/ WorldNetDaily] be considered a credible source for calling Gentile a socialist in the lead? Gentile's alleged socialist ties are not discussed at any other point in the WP article. Etzedek24 ^{(Would it kill ya to leave an edit summary?)} 00:15, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Premature Rfc There has been no discussion of this prior to this Rfc, afaict, and since [e]ditors are normally expected to make a reasonable attempt at working out their disputes before seeking help from others, per WP:RFC this is premature. I am looking into whether an immediate procedural close would be appropriate here. Mathglot (talk) 22:01, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This topic has been listed at Wikipedia:AN/RFC to be assessed for closure. Mathglot (talk) 22:17, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Bad Source

the part about his death sources the Italian Wikipedia page. Citing a wikipedia page is against Wikipedia editing guidelines, thus this should be edited to either have a different citation, or to change the information entirely. Comradeka (talk) 03:12, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Claims about relationship between actual idealism and fascism ('Philosophy' section)

The second paragraph of the "Philosophy" section asserts that Gentile's fascist politics do not necessarily follow from the principles of actual idealism, which comes across as a debatable philosophical position rather than a neutral explanation. While I can see the grounds for such a position (and suspect there are scholars who have put forth similar arguments), as it stands the passage clashes with the encyclopedic tone and could be improved by instead citing relevant scholars' stances on the topic. Until I have a chance to look into said scholarship or someone more familiar with it pitches in, I'm marking the claim as potential original research. RobinMukyu (talk) 21:24, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox country of death

What should the infobox country of death be? Previously it was "Italian Social Republic", but was changed to "Kingdom of Italy" in this edit.

Kingdom of Italy seems anachronistic to me, as at the time of his death on 15 April 1944, Florence was still under the control of the Social Republic, only being captured by the Allies (and thus the Kingdom of the South / Kingdom of Italy) in August 1944. Thoughts?

Pinging IPs @134.0.5.121 and @5.179.163.105. Meluiel (talk) 17:31, 11 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@5.77.127.179 Not going to immediately re-revert this [1], but my point is that Gentile was not within the territory of the Kingdom of Italy at the time of his death, but the Italian Social Republic. I don't think it's accurate to say a person died in a country that had no authority over the place of his death. We could compromise and say simply "Italy", if you like? Meluiel (talk) 20:43, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]