This is an archive of past discussions about Fatima. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
@Albertatiran Hello. I have added a painting of Fatima to the section pertaining to her appearance. In my opinion, the lack of such an image might have been a deficiency in the article. Alongside presenting the beliefs of Sunnis, Shiites, and Sufis, incorporating this image by a western painter can enhance the understanding of the topic and contribute to the improvement of the article. But you've deleted this image. I'd be happy to discuss any problem you might have considered. Hosein (talk) 22:30, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
@Albertatiran We can say that at least allegorically. Jules Lefebvre has painted his works, drawing inspiration from historical figures, biblical characters with mythological and allegorical themes. For example, in 1892, he painted Judith, inspired by this character. The title "Fatima" alone is also attributed to the historical figure of Fatima, and the Arabic motif in the painting further suggests this theme. Hosein (talk) 17:05, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
@Albertatiran Clearly, "Fatima" means "Fatima," (especially with the Tasbih of Fatimah around her neck in the image) and if you think Fatima alone is not widely recognized by this name, it contradicts the existing consensus about the title of the article. Otherwise, consensus could have been reached on another name for the article, such as Fatima bint Muhammad.
If this is not the case, you should express your dissent more clearly. Especially since the article lacks any portrait of her, especially from western artists, which is a deficiency in this article. It is worth mentioning that it is true that in traditional culture, drawing images of the Prophet of Islam and his relatives was usually prohibited, but this should not be a reason for not displaying portraits that help readers' understanding. Hosein (talk) 20:25, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
I am also not convinced that because the necklace is similar to a Tasbih, and because this article is called Fatima (instead of Fatima bint Muhammad), we should put that image in this article.Ghazaalch (talk) 01:03, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
@Ghazaalch Firstly, in addition to the Tasbih of Fatimah around her neck in the allegorical painting, even the color of her dress (ghamis or gamis) closely matches the one attributed to her in the Istanbul museum (described as yellowish cream with patterns of blue in certain areas). I'm not certain if the dress truly belonged to her, but I mean the painter attempted to draw the most inspiration from the historical figure.
Regarding the second matter, I didn't quite grasp your point. I didn't suggest that just because the article is titled "Fatima," it must include this painting. My main emphasis is that this painting contributes significantly to broadening the subject for the reader, in terms of her appearance. However, if you intend to argue that she wasn't widely recognized under the name "Fatima," my question was whether there is a consensus that she was widely recognized under this name (the title of the article), and there's no room for debate on this matter. Hosein (talk) 03:47, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
@Wiqi55 Usually, images in such articles (including this one) lack support from reliable sources, and I haven't read in WP:IUP that such a requirement exists. However, an auction catalog is also not a reliable source. Such descriptions can often be general and may not fully capture the artist's intended symbolism or historical references. In the case of the painting in question, "Fatima," I think several elements within the artwork strongly suggest its connection to the historical figure of Fatima. Hosein (talk) 13:58, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
