Talk:Deaths in July 2025

Billy Hunter on July 3rd: Question About 1956 World Series

There appears to be conflicting or inaccurate information regarding the role of Billy Hunter with the 1956 New York Yankees. The Wikipedia bio of Hunter makes mention of Hunter playing 39 games with the team, but that he was NOT involved with the team when they played in and won the 1956 World Series. The special Wikipedia template showing the roster of the 1956 Yankees Championship team does not include Hunter.

Given this, the mention of Hunter being a 1956 World Series champion on the Wikipedia Deaths Page would appear to be an error. It should be noted that Hunter was an assistant coach on the 1966 and 1970 Baltimore Orioles World Series championship teams, and his name does appear on the Wiki-Templates for both those titles. Fgf2007 (talk) 12:06, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

You are completely right - a now indefinitely blocked editor introduced that "fact" into the Billy Hunter article in 2021, shortly before the editor was excluded from Wikipedia. I've put both the entry and the Hunter article right on that. Thanks for pointing this out. Ref ^(chew)(do) 15:46, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

Thank You Most Kindly Fgf2007 (talk) 19:41, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

If it makes a difference, here's an AP wire service story showing Hunter among the Yankees getting full shares. What's interesting is that Enos Slaughter ,who also played on the Yankees that year, and appeared in the World Series (unlike Hunter) only received a 3/4 share. Most likey the reason for this is Slaughter got picked up on waivers on 8/25/56, nearly at the end of the regular season. DarkStarHarry (talk) 18:27, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

Monetary shares, maybe a payoff for services rendered, but it doesn't seem to mean anything in "official" stats sources. I have to admit I know little about baseball and its reward practices, but I made the edit-outs in good faith, and still assume I'm right in hard fact if not in financial imbursement. What do others think? Ref ^(chew)(do) 20:45, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

@Refsworldlee I think it's plausible that he was in uniform for the 1956 series but didn't play (there are newspaper clips of the 1956 World Series roster - Hunter included).

The question is : what's the standard for inclusion on the template? DarkStarHarry (talk) 22:47, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

https://www.newspapers.com/article/toledo-blade-1956-world-series-rosters/176080734/ DarkStarHarry (talk) 22:54, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

Here's a column by Jimmy Cannon which gives his account of Don Larsen's perfect game . Hunter was on the bench. https://www.newspapers.com/article/newsday-suffolk-edition-larsens-perfe/177005247/ DarkStarHarry (talk) 18:49, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

In baseball a player is credited with winning the World Series if he played in any games that season just not the playoffs or World Series because it is a team sport over close to 200 games per year where the likelihood of injury is high (162 regular season + 3 playoff series that can go 7 games each). The team winning the Series also votes "shares" of the prize money they win that is collected from MLB. These can go to anyone the players deem fit from team employees like doctors and physical trainers, stadium personnel like clubhouse attendants, ushers or to other people.SunnyDoo, 21:22, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

So you're saying that a player who didn't make the team for the World Series, or even make the squad on the relevant day, can be a World Series "winner"? There's something awry there, even if it's true. Ref ^(chew)(do) 22:19, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

Yes they will be listed in the baseball archives as winning the world series for that year because they contributed to the run. Like I said it is 180 games in the year and with the physical nature of it- no one is going to be healthy by the end especially in this day and age of Tommy John surgeries. And another thing about it, a lot of players have clauses in their contract where they get bonuses if the team wins the World Series, and that pays out whether or not they play in or contribute during the playoffs. There are several rosters involved and some players that play during the year are exempted and cant play in the playoffs because of roster limitations, various trades between teams and/or suspensions. But everyone of those players will be listed as a World Series winner. The criteria that is used is that the player must have appeared on the 40 man roster at some point in the season to be eligible.SunnyDoo, 20:36, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2025

Could you please move American author Martin Cruz Smith to his correct date of death on July 11? He is currently listed under July 12. The death date from The Telegraph is incorrect. He passed away on Friday according to his publishers.[1] 78.77.216.51 (talk) 17:36, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Your source doesn't mention a date of death, the source in the article states at the end, he died on the 12th. - FlightTime (open channel) 17:46, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

I strongly disagree! The article clearly states that Cruz Smith died ”FRIDAY” which must refer to the latest Friday, which was July 11. July 12 was NOT a Friday, it was a Saturday. Please read a calendar. And since when is Associated Press not a reliable source? The AP article also states that his publishers have confirmed the day of death. 78.77.216.51 (talk) 17:55, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

 Done Telegraph article is now updated to the 11th, which matches the AP article's use of Friday. meamemg (talk) 18:16, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

A post on the facebook official page of Martin Cruz Smith by his children yesterday here states that he died late Friday night, but if you read the post completely at the end they wrote his date of birth and his date of death and they wrote he died July 12, 2025. I wonder if late Friday night doesn't mean the night from the 11 to 12 and he died after midnight? And if the publisher was told by the children late Friday night and said only Friday omitting late and night? --Danielvis08 (talk) 02:27, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

Very late-in-the-day deaths are usually registered the following morning, when registrars open. If that's any indication. Ref ^(chew)(do) 07:00, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

Maybe. Right now I'm seeing AP saying "Friday Night" which implies the 11th but isn't totally clear, the Telegraph which revised their article from the 12th to the 11th, and now Facebook (not a WP:RS), saying the 12th. Based on that, I'm inclined to leave it at the 11th, but certainly don't feel strongly. meamemg (talk) 13:42, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

Audun Grønvold date of death

Absolutely all Norwegian sources, including those citing his wife, say that Grønvold died during the night leading to the 16th. This post from the Norwegian ski federation was cited in the Olympics source, but it too clearly says he died during the night. "Natt til i dag" means after midnight. Had he died before midnight, the wording would likely have been "i går kveld", yesterday evening. Nukualofa (talk) 10:15, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

This currently trumps that, and clearly states 15th as reported by the nation's ski federation. And the Guardian reports "died on Tuesday night" too. Ref ^(chew)(do) 14:22, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

They are both quoting the Norwegian ski federation, who says he died during the night leading to the 16th. "Natt til i dag gikk Audun Grønvold bort, bare 49 år gammel." In Norwegian, this means after midnight. The word natt ("night") never means evening, as it can in English. Using Google Translate, I get "Last night, Audun Grønvold passed away...", which is wrong, so it clearly is a case of mistranslation. Possibly lazy mistranslation.Nukualofa (talk) 20:36, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

We're not here to conduct a fine-tuned investigation into language use. If a reliable source (two in this case) says "died 15th" or "died Tuesday" (which was the 15th), we take that at face value. This is over-thinking the facts. Ref ^(chew)(do) 22:05, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

Here are ten reliable Norwegian sources, including the one quoted by the two you posted above, saying he died Wednesday. NRK, Dagbladet, VG, Norwegian Ski Federation, TV2, Aftenposten, Nettavisen, Adresseavisen, Fredrikstad Blad, Sunnmørsposten. Most of them quote his wife's Facebook post, posted Wednesday the 16th, reading "Audun, min store kjærlighet og min beste venn i tjue år. I dag forlot du oss." ("Audun, my great love and best friend for twenty years. Today you left us.") It's not a fine-tuned investigation into language use. It's the Olympics website using Google Translate, and getting it wrong.Nukualofa (talk) 23:29, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

Here it isNukualofa (talk) 13:08, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

David Alliance, Baron Alliance

Rather than the current slow-burning edit war, we need to resolve whether this death is sorted under A or B. His article suggests previously suggested the default sort is B, but others suggest A is correct. WWGB (talk) 14:16, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

A quick sample of some of the people listed on List of current members of the House of Lords shows that all of them are defaultsorted by their actual family name, not by their title, so the defaultsort of the Baron Alliance was wrong, of course he should be under A. --Marbe166 (talk) 14:26, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

I think the simple and truthful edits to his article's defaultsort have already resolved this. I don't understand why he was primarily sorted to "Baron" in the first place. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 15:43, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

Actually peers normally ARE alphabetized by the name of their title when it is not (as it is in this case) the same as their family name...just not (ever!) by the RANK of their title. Forename Surname,1st Earl of Wherever would be alphabetized under Wherever (rather than Surname or Earl). 72.80.248.12 (talk) 01:42, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

It should be pointed out that Norman Tebbit, Baron Tebbit is in this same list of deaths in a month and no one has thought to alphabetize him under B instead of T.72.80.248.12 (talk) 01:39, 23 July 2025 (UTC)