Talk:At Hope's Ravine

At Hope's Ravine is currently an Albums good article nominee. Nominated by Suntooooth, it/he (talk/contribs) at 20:10, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

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A fact from At Hope's Ravine appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 4 May 2025 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that a reviewer praised At Hope's Ravine by saying that singer Pat Hynes sounds "like he's being unbearably tortured whilst holding a pneumatic drill"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2025/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/At Hope's Ravine.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Hilst talk 18:05, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that Pat Hynes' vocal style on At Hope's Ravine is "like being unbearably tortured whilst holding a pneumatic drill"?

Source: "Vocalist Pat Hynes has a unique style which makes him sound like he’s being unbearably tortured whilst holding a pneumatic drill."

ALT1: ... that according to one critic, some songs on At Hope's Ravine are like a karaoke performance of Joy Division? Source: "Even if several songs see them veer too close to conventional power-balladry or Joy Division karaoke ..."
ALT2: ... that At Hope's Ravine's sound reflects Glasgow's brutalist architecture? Source: "Reflecting both the stark brutalism of the city’s architecture and the imposing countryside of Lanarkshire itself ..." + "This is a debut hewn from the grey tenements of Glasgow ..."
Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Carole Gibbons

Moved to mainspace by Suntooooth (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 12 past nominations.

Suntooooth, it/he (talk/contribs) 17:13, 6 April 2025 (UTC).[reply]

It's odd that there's no article on the band itself: it seems like there's enough coverage in the Background section for at least a stub. More importantly, it's not an objective fact that e.g. the band's sound reflects Glasgow's brutalist architecture, that's someone's opinion, and the article should at least say "reviewers said" if not attributing it explicitly. I'd also warn against taking the analogies in the reviews too literally. That applies to both the article and the hooks. Maybe:
- ALT0 ... that a reviewer praised At Hope's Ravine by saying singer Pat Hynes sounds "like he's being unbearably tortured whilst holding a pneumatic drill"?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Apocheir (talk • contribs)

@Apocheir: Thanks for the feedback! Going through it point by point:

I have a barebones draft for the band, but I find it much easier to write an album article than a band article because of the lesser scope, so I did this one first. I'm planning to get around to the band article once I feel like it.
I've added "reviewers said" to the point about the Glasgow architecture. Would that hook also need changing?
I don't understand why ALT0 needs changing. In a previous DYK of mine, the hook "... that So Medieval's lyrics are "like an audiobook during a car crash"?" passed, and I don't see the difference between that hook and ALT0 here. Could you explain your reasoning for changing that specific hook?
Are all other DYK criteria followed (including for ALT1, which wasn't mentioned)? Just making sure, since it isn't specified.

Also, not related to the substance of the review, but there's no signature at the end of the review, so I had to look in the page history to see who to ping! Thanks very much for the review :] Suntooooth, it/he (talk/contribs) 09:23, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the article edit. Like I said, I think it would be easy to bang out a stub and come back to expand it later, but that was more of a comment than a request.

For the hook, I thought it was more interesting to say the quote came from a positive review. Typically "sounds like he's being tortured" isn't a positive thing! Apocheir (talk) 18:46, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Apocheir: While adding context would make the hook marginally more interesting, I believe that shorter hooks are generally snappier than long hooks, and therefore are more likely to get a reader's attention (I know that personally my brain tends to skim over long hooks instead of properly reading them). As a compromise, what about putting your suggestion as an ALT3, so that a prep builder can choose between both? I've put that below for clarity:

ALT3: ... that a reviewer praised At Hope's Ravine by saying that singer Pat Hynes sounds "like he's being unbearably tortured whilst holding a pneumatic drill"?

Let me know if this sounds acceptable! Suntooooth, it/he (talk/contribs) 19:09, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Approved, using the revised ALT0 or ALT3. Apocheir (talk) 01:34, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]