Talk:Akaroa

1839?

Ara says: ...on 15 June 1839 letters patent were issued in London altering the definition of the boundaries of New South Wales to include “any territory which is or may be acquired in sovereignty by Her Majesty … within that group of Islands in the Pacific Ocean, commonly called New Zealand”.[1] The acquiring of course, came later via the Treaty of Waitangi. Note that this whole "English settlement" section was added in 2010 with this edit, which seems to be pushing an agenda. Snori (talk) 09:21, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Bully Hayes section

Regarding the Bully Hayes restaurant renaming in response to the George Floyd protests, I think this article might not be the best place for it. I;ll instead put it in the George Floyd protests in New Zealand section. The article doesn't reference the George Floyd protests but will find one that does that. Here is the passage in case people wanted to give their ideas or feedback:

On 9 June 2020, the Akaroa restaurant "Bully Hayes Restaurant" announced that it would be changing its name due to its namesake William "Bully" Hayes' involvement in blackbirding in the Pacific during the late 19th century.

References

Kind regards. Andykatib 03:30, June 15, 2020 (UTC)

I agree. Should have taken a photo of that restaurant yesterday as I was in Akaroa. Schwede66 04:05, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

I agree with that proposal too. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 07:21, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Despite the reporting the restaurant didn't actually rename itself. Traumnovelle (talk) 21:23, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

Ōnuku vs Onuku

In the edit summary of your revert, Traumnovelle, you state: Please read the source before altering locations and words. Is this in reference to the June 1988 journal article in Historic Places in New Zealand? If yes, please note that it's ridiculous to base decisions on macrons on a 1988 source. Personally, I have no view on whether a macron should be included; I'm just addressing the (potential) weakness of your argument. Schwede66 04:25, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

My edit summary was with regards to the location and non-denominational versus undenominational. Traumnovelle (talk) 05:29, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

So why did you change the macrons, Traumnovelle? Schwede66 09:46, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Because the church's name is a proper noun. Traumnovelle (talk) 09:53, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Banks Peninsula: cradle of Canterbury (3rd ed.) 2007 vs 2010

The Source section has the year of third edition of this book as 2010. This conflict with wikidata item Banks Peninsula: cradle of Canterbury (2007) (Q132532063). Which is correct? Herewhy (talk) 03:39, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

Both. They were different editions with different ISBNs. Schwede66 04:03, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Oh, I see now, thanks. They are both third editions, but the 2007 is hardcover while 2010 is a paperback. I wonder if the page numbering is identical. I will fix wikidata Herewhy (talk) 21:21, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

You can’t assume that pagination is the same. Schwede66 22:31, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

Quality of edits

user:Herewhy I appreciate your efforts which are meant in good faith but you are having trouble grasping what to do. Your 'errors' keep recurring and they are making articles worse than they might be and in some cases damaging perfectly good sections that don't need improving. You don't understand what formal encyclopedic neutral English is. I don't have time to sift through your latest addition word by word so it's been reverted. (Tourism) Some quick pointers - The Ogilvy source you incorrectly use is a newspaper book review not a proper RSS. If you do use it then he is saying the French connection has been tarted up to appeal to the ignorant, which is what I said/im[lied in an early comment. Do you seriously think 'French-ification' is a word to use here? While the direct connections between Akaroa and France have diminished over time What direct connections with France has Akaroa ever had? Even Ogilvy in his book review says there's more to Akaroa than just being a tourist town. Why are you once again using your own imaginary words to tart up what should be a straightforward description of those three photos? - An air of history is retained in historic homes, flowers, whale pots, and a variety of French-inspired establishments (See Try pot which is the correct name for those pots) My suggestion is that you spend more time dealing with obvious typos and bus timetables, and if possible, learn how to read and understand and then use sources better and ask on the talk page about how to write encyclopedic English. Sorry to be curt but your efforts are causing others to waste time sorting them out. Slow down and keep it very simple until, or even if, you get to understand what to do. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 09:23, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

Maybe you could for once do something productive and improve the addition than your reverts, Roger. It’s painful to watch your ongoing negative contributions. Schwede66 09:45, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

I'm sorry you see it that way. I don't think I am a constant complainer as you seem to be suggesting. I think I do make constructive edits quite often (such as most of the section here about the French), that take a lot of time. I also try to give suggestions and advice as often as possible, which in this case I have done. In this case (and sorry to talk about you Herewhy as if you're not here) but what am I supposed to do? I've mentioned the flowery language about two or three times already, which I don't think is contraversial, and specifically the over emphasis on the French connection, which is what the source by Ogilvy is saying too. The French connection is important, of course, but not very important. There is much, much, more to Akaroa than the French. How's this for a 'helpful' suggestion - I have already split the history section into four parts based on local govt, which seems a simple way to do it. Without over weighting the history section there is room in those subsections for a small paragraph or two. Someone could do that. But, it will require a moderate grasp of the bigger picture and not just taking the odd sentence or two from a newspaper, out of context, and that will require time and reading unless you are already familiar with the bigger picture of Banks Peninsula history. Another idea is to mention Georg/e Hempleman who was the first permanent European resident of the peninsula and Canterbury, not the French. There's a whalers try pot in Akaroa used by him near the three in the photo added by Herewhy. (I think it is stand alone and not one of the tree.) That would be an interesting and relevant story to take up a sentence. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 12:48, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

The content 'While the direct connections between Akaroa and France have diminished over time, every tourist town needs a distinct image, and Akaroa’s “French-ification” attempts to cash in on the town’s ancestry.' should not be stated in wikivoice based on the sourcing:

I'm not sure if this should even be due for inclusion but it certainly must be attributed as an opinion and not a fact.

The second paragraph's publisher isn't really a proper publisher but the author appears to be a PhD historian: [2] (this is a good source to use for the article and we should use it over the walking pamphlet) so I think it passes somewhat as expert SPS, although the second half of that paragraph should be trimmed to not list every single thing and reworded as it reads far too much like a guidebook. Traumnovelle (talk) 19:45, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

References

@Traumnovelle: Thanks for the better source. I will add it to Wikipedian-at-Large Banks Peninsula project. Herewhy (talk) 00:50, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Here's a suggestion user:Herewhy on what I would do. First put back your 'tourism' edit but substantially reword it. The photos are fine. Now, the Ogilvy 'source' does have some interesting ideas to work with, such as the remaining quirks of the French settlers, such as access to the waterfront. I have always thought that the Queens Chain applied everywhere in NZ except Akaroa, due to the French. I haven't looked further into it but Ogilvy sort of confirms that. So, I would then look online for better sources to use and then write a few lines about it. You could create a subsection called "Remnants of the French Connection" or similar and even check out for sources about the road width in Akaroa that would be another 'quirk' caused by the French link. Here is one source I've found. It might not be strictly a secondary source (A legal blog) but it seems good enough and might give further links to secondary sources. You have to first read it fully, and other sources, to get a thorough understanding of what it says and then summarise it yourself in the article and insert citations when and where needed. [ https://www.godfreyslaw.co.nz/blog/the-queens-chain/ ]. You could even start a new article on the Queens Chain if there isn't one now. So, that book review you found might not be good enough to use as a RSS but it has given you plenty of ideas to follow up on with positive productive additions. It will also take time to do. Oh, yes, Traumnovelle, I agree that Ogilvy is a good author. I had discounted the 'expert on the subject' approach because I think the book review was too casual a reference and I'm also not sure how expert he is. I have used the primary source but expert author approach before elsewhere but with authors who are significantly more expert in their field. However, you make a good point. I still think it is safer to look around and find better sources. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 23:20, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

@Roger 8 Roger: I’m glad you appreciate my efforts. My participation is just the beginning of a much larger effort, Wikipedian-at-Large Banks Peninsula project. Brace yourself! Your constructive contribution to this project will be appreciated.Herewhy (talk) 00:00, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

I'm glad that there's some constructive dialogue going now. That's all I wanted to see. As for Hempelmann (that's another spelling for you; most probably the original spelling of his surname), I thought that he had lived in Akaroa only for his last few years. His German bio (George Hempleman) says that he lived in Takamatua after moving away from Peraki Bay (the English article is for the locality Peraki and not the body of water). Schwede66 04:46, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

George Macdonald says that he did move to Akaroa from Peraki. Schwede66 04:57, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I meant about being the first settler. Both articles seem pretty good and spell it out. I think he is first because although there were several shore stations in the 1830s they were all seasonal and functioned for temporary shore accommodation by whaling parties. Hempelmann, however, stayed year round from 1837, thereby making his occupancy permanent. Having his wife there too probably helped in describing his stay as permanent. The story of raising the German flag and being told to lower it is another example of Britain establishing its authority in the area. What 'German' flag is meant though (in 1840) is not clear though. Maybe it was a Prussian flag. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 05:20, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

de.wiki says he was from Hamburg so it could be either the flag of Hamburg or possibly it refers to the flag of the German Confederation Traumnovelle (talk) 05:32, 22 April 2025 (UTC)