Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea

Korean reference translation

Recently, I've changed most reference translations on Korean drama articles to sound more like native English news media. I wonder who translated the Korean references, even if the translation is not theirs. I noticed one page used to have the translation "Please watch it a lot", which sounds... awkward for native English speakers. Do non-English references require translation anyway? ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:50, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

In general I think there's a strong expectation for providing title translation for non-English works in references. We currently recommend doing so in MOS:KO-REF. In basically every non-English-related GA I think that's the standard expectation. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 15:42, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

I looked at the article, but there's no mention of whether or not the English translation should be self-translated. For example, "Redevelopment of Seogye-dong, next to Seoul Station... Building 2,714 apartments with up to 39 floors each", the native English translation would be something like: "Seogye-dong is rebuilding 2,714 apartments with a maximum of 39 floors each next to Seoul Station". I also noticed that some Korean drama articles use "first broadcast in [date]" instead of "premieres/set to premiere on [date]". ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:43, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

WP:TRANSCRIPTION somewhat applies here; the general expectation is for self-translation to be applied for |trans-title= if no preferred translation for the title is known.

I think the case you mention, about the prose of the output translation, is more a matter of personal taste/style about the nature of translations than it is a matter of Wikipedia policy. The first translation example you give is a quite literal translation that mimics the prose of the Korean-language title. The second example you give is a more natural sounding English-language title that sacrifices some fidelity to orig Korean style. I think as long as there isn't a loss in meaning, either translations are generally considered acceptable. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 00:55, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

The World Destubathon

You are invited to participate in The World Destubathon. It's currently planned for June 16-July 13, partly due to me having hayfever during that period and not wanting to run it throughout July or August in the hotter summer and will be run then unless multiple editors object. There is currently $3338 going into it, with $500 the top prize. As 250 countries and entities is too much to patrol, entries will be by user, but there is $500 going into prizes for editors covering the most countries. Sign up if interested! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:59, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

Semi-automatic romanization

Hello, you may have noticed we've begun deploying the semi-automatic romanization templates {{Infobox Korean name/auto}} and {{Korean/auto}}. We recommend you use either of these for all articles; eventually these are planned to replace the older non-automatic versions entirely. If you need just romanization and not the Korean text, use {{Ko-translit}}.

We haven't noticed any bugs with them so far, but if you spot any or have any feedback/suggestions, please let us know. We're going to actively develop them.

We've currently switched around 5% of all uses of Infobox Korean name over to the automatic version. We'll be switching over the rest over the course of several months. You're welcome to help with the conversion process. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 06:23, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Also, note that not all uses of {{Korean}} need to be switched over to {{Korean/auto}}. If a current use of {{Korean}} doesn't involve romanization at all (e.g. Korean: 안녕; lit. hello), there's not really a functional difference between whether you use that template or {{Korean/auto}}. And we're eventually planning to turn {{Korean}} into a redirect to {{Korean/auto}}, so they'll all be the same thing eventually anyway.

However, {{Korean/auto}} does have new features that {{Korean}} does not have; in this case you may want to use it immediately instead. For example, it can handle references for individual terms and IPA. But if swapping out the templates is mostly an invisible change, we recommend you avoid making mass changes of only that; disruptive for little gain to readers. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 19:20, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Korean history working group

When I clicked on the Korean history working group link under the current working group section, it said, "This task force is believed to be inactive." Also Korean cuisine was also listed under Current but is not listed in the Working Group dropdown under the section on the right side. Grad0507 (talk • contribs) 21:05, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

@Grad0507 Probably nobody finished the process of making it. Korean Wikiproject and like are barely active, most workgroups are just wishful thinking. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:16, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

It may be best to change them from being displayed as working groups to being displayed as sub-category tools. CMD (talk) 05:25, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis Go for it (I don't know how to do it). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:40, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Being less bold than that, I've removed the inactive ones instead, given Military History and North Korea seemed to have some activity. We should probably remove "Departments" as well. CMD (talk) 05:25, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Seowoncheon

The article Seowoncheon has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Tagged as Unreferenced and unimproved for 15 and 1/2 years. No other language has a sourced article from which to translate. It's a run of the mill "fork of a creek."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Bearian (talk) 22:33, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Opposed; please see edit comment for my deletion of the prod grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 00:22, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

@Bearian Take it to AfD, since no sources have been added. Unless this is improved, a redirect may be warranted to deal with WP:V/WP:OR issues. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:15, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

I'm ok with keeping it, if it can be sourced. I'll get back to you both. Bearian (talk) 09:23, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

I looked a second time and found no reliable English language sources. If nobody is willing to translate it from Korean language sources, then it's by definition not verified. Bearian (talk) 09:34, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Grapesurgeon, can you please add the source that you found to the article? I can't find it. How much time do you need? This weekend? June 15? Please let us know. Bearian (talk) 10:13, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

@Bearian@Piotrus The source referred to in grapesurgeon's edit summary is [1]. Toadspike [Talk] 11:12, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

That's nice, but I'm not going to be responsible for adding something I can't read here. Someone else has to do that. Bearian (talk) 11:15, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

I understand. My point was simply that WP:NATFEAT is met here, so an AfD would be pointless. I, too, would have to work off of machine translation, which seems to be giving me substantially different information from what's in the article right now, so I'll wait for grapesurgeon to work on this. Anyhow, thank you for bringing this to the community's attention; I am sure this will result in the article ending up better than it was when you found it. Toadspike [Talk] 11:19, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

I take that back – this article seems to be about a stream in a completely different part of Korea (Cheonan rather than Daegu). I started rewriting the lead before figuring this out, this is what I had when I left off:

is a stream which flows through Dongnam District, South Chungcheong Province, South Korea.

Not sure if we should hijack this article for this "new" stream or try to find information on the intended stream. Toadspike [Talk] 11:31, 4 June 2025 (UTC) Toadspike [Talk] 11:31, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

It's odd that this stream has a stub when the stream it's a tributary to does not. I'm wondering if merging somehow to Miryang River would work, if nothing substantial turns up. CMD (talk) 12:56, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

As a specific response to the idea of hijacking articles for topics of the same name, please do not do this. I once spent some time disentangling two different Indian villages and it's a headache to go through the edit history and figure out what's what. CMD (talk) 19:12, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

@Bearian @Piotrus

Toadspike is right; I was wrong on which stream was being referred to. I think a deletion discussion can go ahead, can't find many other sources in Korean.

However, I'd like to note that WP:OR and WP:V issues aren't causes for deletion. WP:DEL-REASON. In general I try to avoid spending too much time on minor articles like this when we're so shortstaffed. In this thread it felt like I was being pressured to improve an article that gets a few views a year, otherwise a deletion would happen when there was no strong policy reason to delete. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 16:21, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Got it. Bearian (talk) 17:39, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Just saying that lack of references is a strong policy reason to delete an article. WP:V is not optional (although we are of course lax in enforcing it, and were much more in the past). As for notability, WP:NATFEAT was cited and it clearly talks about sourcing too, so right now that article fails NATFEAT. If nobody can improve it, it should go as a non-notable geo feature and, frankly, a possible WP:HOAX (no sources). PS. I use the word hoax in the meaning "a possible error", not "intentional error" (wiki use of this is inconsistent). Just claryfing, as it is a pet peevy of mine. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:49, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

Hm you're right, I just learned about WP:ATD-E. Still, I wouldn't say it's a strong reason; still relies on consensus in the discussion. It could go either way in reduction to stub or deletion depending on discussion. Either way, that's enough litigation on minor article. I'd vote to delete if deletion discussion happened. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 01:53, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

I'd suggest WP:ATD-R to Iseo-myeon, Cheongdo County, where it is mentioned (unless sourcing is found and added). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:55, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

I have created an article on the Cheongdocheon that includes a short paragraph on the Seowoncheon. I have boldly redirected there as explained on Talk:Seowoncheon. I am happy to revert if there is an objection.

To state the obvious, in 2006 when I created this article it was not yet standard practice to cite uncontroversial information. But of course in the ensuing two decades we've all learned that there are a lot of valuable uses for inline citations besides just providing support for those statements that are likely to be challenged as WP:V requires. Not least of which is the difficulty of figuring out what your source was when a statement is challenged 19 years later.

The causal link between the short-staffed nature of today's Wikipedia that leaves so little energy for long-tail articles, the ever-slowing pace of article creation and maintenance, and the ever more exclusionary application of policy is left as an exercise for the reader. -- Visviva (talk) 01:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Jim Rogers § Jim's 'endorsement' of Lee Jae-myung

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Jim Rogers § Jim's 'endorsement' of Lee Jae-myung, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. 183.101.53.185 (talk) 08:44, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

Soyeon Jeong or Jeong Soyeon?

Maybe this needs renaming? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:27, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

WP:KOREANNAME would be the protocol; name order can be Western in steps 1 and 2, but if neither steps are met then step 3 asks for Eastern with hyphen. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 06:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

@Grapesurgeon I hope someone who understands that policy can decide whether renaming is needed. I did read what you wrote and, sorry, I don't follow. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:22, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

It's no more complicated than most other Wikipedia policies. The third step of the policy is the most complicated part but it's not really applicable to this case. Steps 1 and 2 are in plain English. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 16:27, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

May revise the third step by converting it into an infographic or something. Maybe in a few weeks because busy. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 22:02, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

Actually may even turn this into a webapp that walks people through the steps. For step 3 it'd give you the correct spelling automatically grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 22:11, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

I see. I thought we almost always use the last first name for Korean names. Interesting. In either case, I am not sure what is the Commonname here - do you have an opinion? I reported this here as all other Korean sf writesr I am familiar with use the last first name order, but this one may be using the opposite? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:36, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

E.g. Syngman Rhee uses the Western order. If the Western order is widely used, we follow that.

I'll post my thoughts on the talk page for Jeong grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 03:39, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

RFC notice

See here for the RFC. Please participate if interested.

This is an WP:RFC that impacts the various South Korean president sidebars, namely {{Lee Jae-myung series}}, {{Moon Jae-in sidebar}}, {{Park Geun-hye series}}, and {{Yoon Suk Yeol series}}. The RFC is proposing that these templates potentially get converted into navboxes on the bottom of articles instead of sidebars. Another option is that if these are kept as sidebars, the signatures and seals be removed. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 06:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

Hangul article

The Hangul article needs a lot of work if anyone's interested. There's tons of good writings on it in English, so even if you're not fluent you should be able to get it to GA.

Also, I'm willing to offer a financial reward if you get it to GA; just post on my talk page if you're interested. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 22:35, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

Cool. Maybe I'll show it to my students as motivation tool, although they are not eligible (they don't do GAs...). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:38, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

As always a sincere thank you for your and your students' editing. However for this article I would maybe discourage that they edit it; article is so important that experienced editors and native speakers of English preferred. Just needs one editor to basically rewrite whole thing clean slate grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 16:17, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

Right. Also generally I gave up on students doing research, outside exceptional cases, their language skills are simply not good enough, translations are enough. Usually from English to their native language. But each year we get a few decent entries on en too. But for big topics like the ones you want, yep, we need someone else. I don't think I am that interested in this - so many other things to do that are a bit more interesting, I fear. Korean science fiction is probably the broadest I'll go with Korean stuff (for now, at least). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

Yea I agree. Thanks again for doing all this 🙂 grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 00:38, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

Draft:Korean Heritage Room, Cathedral of Learning

Anybody interested in saving a draft from deletion? Not sure it's any good, but from a skim it seemed to need wikification, but maybe well-written(?) not sure if maybe has copy paste sort of problems... User:D Kirlston - talk 02:03, 10 June 2025 (UTC)